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Strangely we awoke early today. I am sorry to say that I laughed when I first saw the footage of the hole where World Trade used to be. I just couldn't process it. There are war planes flying over the East Village.

We began our day on the roof, where neighbors had seen the first plane narrowly miss the Con Ed building on our corner and flew by so close that they could see the passengers inside. How do you comprehend this? Johnny and I went next went to St. Mark's Church where the stillness inside was a welcome relief from the panic on the streets. Walking back, we saw pickup trucks filled with former Masters of the Universe stuffed into the backs like refugees, leaving town.

For those of you far out of town who are trying to reach us - our phones are still out though we are getting some incoming calls. All cellphones seem totally jammed as well.

BTW Kitty may be stuck in Brooklyn tonight near Prospect Park. Please email me at if you might have a place for her tonight should it come to that.
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Strangely enough, I was awake, heard the initial explosion and a woman screaming hysterically on the street. And then the emergency vehicles. I got dressed and went downstairs and was crossing the street when the second plane hit. People were walking north with blood-splattered faces, their clothing shredded. Now, the silence down here is positively eerie, punctuated by the occasional siren, the drone of bombers overhead.

Looking out my window, it is a beautiful sunny day.

The sky is so very blue. Although, if you stand on
first avenue, and look southward, you can see the
smoke in the sky.

All the hospitals are on alert. I am not allowed to leave. The chairs have been moved about in the patient waiting areas, so that hallways are lined with chairs.

They expect them to be lined with bodies. It is all so sureal. Life is about to change in such a drastic way. Just what the
consequences will be remain to be seen...Life will not be the same as we know it.

There is a blood center a block away. There are people lined up around the block to give blood.

There is a strange quiteness and calmness. We
anticipate the bodies to come here...Time will tell.

I am calm. Sad, but calm. I know I will be fine. I am so sorry that there are so many who won't.

It must be so hard Diane - we are all so lost today - I DO envy you one thing though - having a job to do. No one else knows quite what to do with themselves - except the odd poster who doesn't seem to have heard yet.

I have decided, like many others, to just stay online as much as possible -here and on The Well (where we have more than a decade of tragedies shared historically in this way) and urge you all to post about this when you are ready - there IS no precedent for what has happened here today and you are best en famille.


I'm with you in Rockland

where we wake up electrified out of the coma

by our own souls' airplanes roaring over the
they've come to drop angelic bombs
the hospital illuminates itself

imaginary walls collapse

O skinny legions run outside
O starry-spangled shock of mercy
The eternal war is here...

-Allen Ginsberg, HOWL (1955-6)
I've just returned from riding my bike downtown to see if I could see more than what's on TV. It just didn't seem real on TV. I was able to ride all the way to Church and Warren Streets. People seem in shock and out-of-their-bodies. The strangest looks on the faces of everyone I passed. Then when I returned to my neighbourhood by St. Vincents, the entire intersection was full of people standing, staring at the hospital. All the doctors and nurses standing by the entrance with stretchers and wheelchairs at the ready,. And then suddenly without warning the entire intersection of people ( me included, singing "God Bless America" at the top of their lungs. I cried.
for the victims who have lost theirs in the blast. I don't know of any other particulars.

We arrived last night from London and awoke to a bright sunny morning. Di walked off to work and I to my car. I heard the first reports at 8:45 I have been between tears and rage all day. I just want to hear from everyone that I know.

I will keep you all as posted as I am with whatever reports that I can get, including any info that I get from Di on the frontline.

my thoughts are constantly with the ones that we have not heard from.



Miami 2017

I've seen the lights go out on Broadway

I saw the Empire State laid low.

And life went on beyond the Palisades,

They all bought bright Cadillacs

And left there long ago.

We held a concert out in Brooklyn

To watch the Island bridges blow.

They turned our power down,

And drove us underground

But we went right on with the show...
(edited by Empress, too damn long)

B. Joel

[This message was edited by Chi Chi on 09-11-01 at 10:52 PM.]
i'm so far away but feel so close to it.
the tears keep coming.
especially when i think about kids whose parents went in to work there this morning.

SO GLAD to see a post from hatches who i know lives close by.

seeing your posts, hearing your voices is a GREAT COMFORT to me here on the other coast.

i love you and am praying for the victims and anyone affected by this. (i.e., all of us.)

here's my quote...
"take care of yourselves. and each other."
-j. springer
The update on donating blood-

They do need blood but cannot process and screen any more till tomorrow. They will need blood tomorrow, and the next day, etc. Some nearby collection points-

Metlife at 5th and 23rd
Bellevue hospital.

I don't think they want people at St. Vincent's though.

LOTS of stores here are closed - an average of two stores open on every block.
I have been online all night, it is almost 9:30am here in Melbourne Australia. I have been frantically e-mailing and over-posting here of course. It's surreal, words fail me but tears keep comming. Yet I am numb. I wish the bars would open. God, ANY bar!

I feel too far away from you all. Thank Goddess for the MotherBoards.

A friend, Andrew Stellman, worked on the 77th floor in World Trade Centre 2. He didn't go to work today. Too close.

My thoughts are with you all. I think of Di. She e-mailed me from the hospital. My love and strength go out to her and to all.

The news in Australia is all about war. I am scared. I'm sure we all are.

love and healing,
i don't know how i feel yet but i am numb.
my father woke me with a call before 9:00am.
i went out on the roof just after the second plane crashed.
rushed off to 28th street and park avenue (26th floor) where i saw the second tower fall.
i still can't believe it. i don't know if i ever will be able to.
i pray for all the people who lost their lives and their loved ones.
i pray for the people who did this.

i was hit hardest when i walked out my door this morning to huge crowds, some in suits covered in dust and all seemed to be calmly dazed.
i cried most of the day.
i was on location in Westchester today, having my cup of coffee and watching Good Morning America when at 8:50... in came the news... i live in tribeca, and it is now in shambles... the eerie thing is... that as of recently, i had taken to have my early morning walk to the Krispy Kreme at the WTC... [which i might have done on this sunny AM]... phone lines were down, TV stations went static, even channel 41 was adding an english version of the news... needless to say, shooting was at a standstill, as we all watched in horror as fellow New Yorkers jumped from 110 burning crumbling stories... i just got to a computer (it is after 11:30 pm now), and tried to call as many as i could during the day, to make sure everyone was ok.... if i haven't spoken or emailed you yet, email me at if you know me, so i know all is well...
From Santa Barbara, via email..

To all my dear friends back east....
earthquakes, wildfires, and mudslides are acts of nature that while oftentimes quite devastating, the cause is somehow "acceptable" or even understandable.
the tragedies that took place this morning--- the most horriffic acts of human nature--- are beyond belief.
sitting out here in this eerily peaceful city, i feel like i have been watching a hollywood movie. there is a definite shift in the way things are that is no longer on the distant horizon, it is upon us. it is now within our individual and collective power to balance this shift with support and go beyond what is in front of us and deliberately, persistantly ---stubbornly!-- search out the threads of hope......

those beautiful and positive energies i send to you now, wishing you well.
salvatore / belladonna
The actress and photographer, Berry Berenson, also the sister of Marisa Berenson and the widow of Anthony Perkins, was unfortunately on Flt 11 that was the second plane to hit the WTC. She was a very talented and beautiful person. I met her several times and found her to be a wonderful and kind person. I am sure that she will much missed by her friends and fans and family.
Contrary to previous reports, TriBeCa is not particularly in shambles; most of the devastation seems to be confined to an area south of Chambers Street. I did hear that the huge antenna that used to top WTC is impaled straight into the ground. I wonder if it's true; very Planet Of The Apes.
Canal Street seems to be a huge holding pen for earth-moving equipment. Cranes and flatbed trucks with concrete barriers on them are parked outside my window.
Last night they would not let me return to my apartment and had sealed off Manhattan below Houston Street on the west side; I had to sleep at TF's house in the West Village. Today, they let me through at Varick Street.
I did notice one lone tranny working the Meat Market, goddess love her; life goes on.
I'm an hour north of NYC, and was on the phone doing an interview with someone in the city when the news came in. We thought it was just a piper cub or some amateur-hour pilot making a small "whoopsie" into the building, and kept on talking. We just had no idea.

Happily, most of the tribe I'm in contact with has checked in, shaken and stirred, but OK.

Got the email that the show will go on tomorrow, and I'm depserate to come to the city to SEE people and connect. But if the area below 14th Street is still blocked off, I will have to settle for continuing to steer strong and hopeful juju everyone's way.

Please take care. xoxox
Together we weave Magical and truly beautiful Art. A Tapestry that is continuously Woven. We are threads of different colours. Some threads be shinier or darker hued. Flecks of gold and silver run through it. We weave this together. We weave the tapestry in revelry and happiness. Brought together together with all the pains and disappointments. We are healed by the weft that is the common experience.

Suddenly, this fabric of our shared consciousness is raveled. The Tapestry becomes frayed. The scattered threads grasp and try to find a purchase.
We seek the familiar. The understanding of this shared experience. we watch in isolation. we attempt to communicate what words cannot convey. We look for the thread we look to the loom. We seek out threads.


Digging in the rubble would be much more preferable than listening to the silence.
I read your report, and thought that the dust that later spiraled through the air was partly cremains. Thinking of so many people I care for, my 'kin', under that flurry of souls was crushing.

I'll check in throughout the day tomorrow. If it looks like you guys *will* be up and running at 2nd and 2nd, I will try to flirt my way past the barricades with bottles of Gatorade or something.

I don't mean to be crude, but, uh, there's no dress code tomorrow, is there? I think I'm gonna have to blue jean it, due to the mass-transit issue, and I really would like to see people. Experiencing this by remote has been very isolating.
I feel hurt, insignificant and helpless. I've suffered several losses in the WTC disaster. I'm angry but know in my heart that anger is not the answer. Strength is. I pray for the souls of the people who have perished and I pray for their families and loved ones. With personal strength and God's help, we'll get through this.
I just had to report that me and the wife went for a walk to the west side and saw something amazing. At Christopher and West Side Hway there's a group of people standing there cheering and clapping as rescue vehicles head up and down the highway. Some people have signs that say "Thank You", some are holding up flags. It really was moving to see these people just giving what they could to the tireless workers downtown. And you culd tell their cheers were being appreciated. That's all for now. Love.
There is a list server for Tom Waites fans called Raindogs. Here is a posting from ground zero.

Sorry for mass mailing this but I've been telling my story so much I figured
this will save me telling it a few dozen more times. Firstly, if anyone was
there or had loved ones there I hope that you and yours are okay and
(physically at least) unscathed. The phrase I heard a lot while I was
downtown all day and night was what soldiers say about a war zone. I was in
'the shit'.

Our headquarters is 6 blocks from ground zero, so I was in it from the
get-go. It basically happened in front of me. The photos and TV coverage may
give one an even better picture than I saw, but watching live and up close is
something I hope never to go through again in my life. Working for NYC Dept.
of Transportation, I was called into service immediately by the emergency
response division. They sent everyone home except our skeleton crew of about
six or seven. I should add here that after the first explosion it was less
than a minute before the police and fire department mobilized and their cars
and trucks were out to the scene. I had gone downstairs to see what was going
on. About ten minutes of jaw-dropping stares later those with me on the
street watched the second explosion. Some had seen the plane hit, but most of
it was obscured because we were looking from behind it and just saw the ball
of flame and smoke projectile vomit out of the other end. I had my digital
camera and took some pictures. You know what it looks like if you've watched
any TV reports. I knew right then that I was needed and headed back to the
DOT Situation Room. I was to assess the traffic conditions on the bridges and
tunnels in the vicinity. Knowing it would be easier to get around, I headed
out on foot armed with my radio, safety vest, dust mask and credentials

I was in a daze awed and humbled and not a little freaked out Bits of debris
-- pipe (plumbing or aircraft), attache cases and knapsacks, concrete and
steel littered the street and flattened all the cars on the northern side
(Vesey Street). A mix of eeirie disbelief, hysterical crying and emergency
personnel were what I encountered. I was about to rendezvous with another DOT
worker at the Office of Emergency Magagement when I was called to the Holland
Tunnel area, so I turned north. I got three blocks when the rumbling began
and everyone, I mean EVERYONE started running. The SouthTower (the second one
that had been hit) was collapsing. I called in to my command what I was
seeing and that I could no longer see the top of the tower. The rumbling
cloud of thick smoke rolled like a tsunami towards us. The crying and panic
had risen to the visual equivalent of a throbbing, out-of-breath sobbing. If
I'd been 2 minutes more lingering in front of OEM I'd have been buried.

I did and saw so many things in the next 28 hours. I shuttled carloads of
bottled water to the triage area by the Ferry terminals. The eerie and (by
now) deserted streets of the Wall Street area were a desolate war zone.
Inches of greyish pale brown powdered dust were over everything and my car,
once blue was now the same color as the sidewalks. I closed streets, I
coordinated the influx of 75 DOT vehicles into our staging area (one block
below Stuyvesant and right in front of the collapsed buildings. I slogged
through the mud of a hundred fire engine hoseleaking soaked streets. There
were hundreds and hundreds of emergency vehicles of all types -- cranes and
dump trucks and ambulances and city busses that shuttled firepersonnel fuel
trucks and flood lights and salvation army meal vans.

There was a lot of waiting and attending briefings while Emergency Management
mobilized personnel and equipment as needed. I am proud that I found use for
some of our trucks. I was placed in charge for the night shift of all DOT
personnel and equipment in the ground zero zone, to be dispatched as needed.
The DOT Emergency Response Assistant Commissioner went home to get some rest.
The rubble was unimaginable. I basically had no real time to process
everything or even sit in front of a TV to get my own information. I made as
many phone calls as I could to all the many concerned friends and family I
have. I am blessed to be so loved. I got home at 10:30am. I had been with
this mayhem for 25 hours. I am exhausted. I got four hours sleep and now 7pm
I'm going back for another 12 hours...

One finally note before I run back there: It's incredible the bravery I've
seen, the generosity of spirit of everyone willing to help -- beyond any
notion of courtesy. Too bad it has to happen mostly in these extreme
circumstances. If we could all be this dedicated to each other -- WORLDWIDE
-- then maybe these things wouldn't happen. Fuck. We've got a long way to
go, still.

Peace and LOVE to you all,
Citizen of Earth
I'm just glad everyone of you is ALIVE and well. Every hour or so I get teary-eyed .... I'm speechless, I feel helpless and very, very sad.

I'm not even afraid for my own safety anymore. I just feel such enormous sadness for all those people in their offices, the rescue workers, the passengers on the those planes and everyone who was killed in this nightmare scenario. And that those two gorgeous buildings, practically like the Great Pyramids to most New Yorkers and such an integral part of our skyline, are gone forever.

I'm also grateful that all the talented, creative, beautiful, eccentric and vibrant personalities from these boards and from the nightlife world that I love can carry on to create a more beautiful tomorrow.

betty domination phoned me tuesday and told me to buy water and canned goods.
well i didn't, went out last night to get some supplies.
toilet paper, water, bread, peanut butter sold out. i got the last few cans of tuna.
i worry about the air. my neighborhood is covered with smoke today.

but i feel strong and know we will rebuild the greatest city in the world.
i am proud to be a new yorker and glad to have such good friends.
thinking more about how it feels like some "thing"- something "inhuman" has attacked us. It reminds me of the first half of Forbidden Planet - where Dr. Morbius (President Bush) remains ignorant as to why all the firepower at his command cant stop the mysterious, terrifying ID monster. Finally he realizes (too late, after many have died) that the ID is a mirror, a supernatural amplification of his unconscious mind.

While terrorists are hardly Bush's personal 'ID' -I believe their actions mirror our country's treatment of others; our lack of real diplomacy and concern for others; our thoughtlessness at the consequences of our actions; and our inability to connect with others and build lasting bridges. I wish Bush would ask the harder questions - Why are so many people willing to give their lives and the lives of innocents to destroy us? What has brought us to this place? How can we fix it?
pardon me, thou bleeding piece of earth,
That I am meek and gentle with these butchers!
Thou art the ruins of the noblest man
That ever lived in the tide of times.
Woe to the hand that shed this costly blood!
Over thy wounds now do I prophesy,--
Which, like dumb mouths, do ope their ruby lips,
To beg the voice and utterance of my tongue--
A curse shall light upon the limbs of men;
Domestic fury and fierce civil strife
Shall cumber all the parts of Italy;
Blood and destruction shall be so in use
And dreadful objects so familiar
That mothers shall but smile when they behold
Their infants quarter'd with the hands of war;
All pity choked with custom of fell deeds:
And Caesar's spirit, ranging for revenge,
With Ate by his side come hot from hell,
Shall in these confines with a monarch's voice
Cry 'Havoc,' and let slip the dogs of war;
That this foul deed shall smell above the earth
With carrion men, groaning for burial.
Dearest Chi Chi,

Just wanted to let you know that our thoughts are with you and your extended family from here in London. Watching this tragedy unfold on TV... it's a Ballardian hyper-real nightmare screenburning itself onto the global retina, an appalling moment that changes everything. We have all lost our innocence, not just America... Soon, we will really be tested on what we believe in.

And I just pray to the god/ess/s/one mind/thing that we come out of this somehow with our belief in co-operation, not domination culture intact. The future lies ultimately with the chalice, not the blade...

The bravery and dignity of New Yorkers right now is truly humbling.Simon, Neil, Robert and David and all the Salon Kitty crew send their love and thoughts, as do the Skin Two family.

I shall raise a glass to you noble freedom fighters tonight. Are you taking donations at all? Credit cards?

Michelle x x x
Jade, I so agree with your post. I keep thinking of something that was said last night at the memorial service at St. Mark's Church. This beautiful woman (poet, perhaps?) spoke with great dignity. She said "When I looked at the picture of the tower coming down and the cloud of smoke, I saw the mushroom cloud again, the one from the pictures, the cloud WE set off over Hiroshima, come back to us here.."

The affirmation of peace at the end of the service has never seemed so important or real. Though I am totally numb, it allowed me to cry - these incredible people, my neighbors,
had so much dignity - it broke my heart.

Everyone has their own reaction, and is entitled to one, but I feel alot more reassured by the people handing out the Prayer for Peace fliers than by the National Guard jeep parked downstairs.

Before you rush to wave a flag, remember how much the military despises our kind, remember that many of the people crying for New York today usually envision her as the home of "Jew-tranny-nigger-faggot" hell on any day that she is not standing in ruins. Remember that New York under the present regime has been cowed by a petty despot, that our freedoms have been constantly challenged here and sold out to corporate interests.

I mourn all of the victims and am haunted by the pictures, hanging everywhere, of the missing. But evil is everywhere, and all of the bloodshed to come will only strengthen the resolve of all our enemies, including the ones so close to home.

Whether you are pagan, Christian, Buddhist ,
Muslim, Rastafarian, Jewish, Bahai, Hindu, wiccan, WHATEVER.

Pray for peace.

See you tonight..
via email -

hi everyone -- My body is in Chicago, and has been for the last 2 weeks, scheduled to fly back Sunday, if all goes well. My heart and soul have been completely in
NYC since our phone range early Tuesday morning and I turned on the TV. I lost neither friends nor family, but the WTC was a place I loved. It was the first place I worked in New York City and the view out my window at my current job. I could not and cannot
believe what's happened this week.

I can't be with you Thur. evening, altho I wish I
could; but I look forward to seeing you, and the new club, in the coming weeks.

God bless New York City.

emily xyz

I have been feeling a bit like a prisoner out here in Brooklyn - a little removed from everything and not being able to get into Manhattan with ease. I have had off work the past two days and have been glued to the television watching the same horrifying, saddening footage over and over. Outside my window we has ash falling from the sky on Tuesday and a thick cloud of smoke up the street. Luckily, everyone I know who works in the area is safe and alive. But the loss of life is just staggering.
And in the middle of all this horror, my sister in PA just gave birth at 2AM this morning - a big 9 pound girl who promises to be a sassy nightowl like her mother and uncle. And I know it's a little cliche about the "circle of life" but it certainly gives me hope and lifts my spirits today.
I plan to make a pilgrimage to Daddy tonight (if I can get into the East Village) to be with my other family and friends and see you all in good health.
But for another reason- after spending the night at Vulgar Greek's on 25th St Tuesday night (after walking 60+ blocks to Houston- in loafers without socks- might as well have worn 6" heels, my feet were so ripped up- and being turned away), I walked to work (another 40 block walk) early in the AM yesterday. When I passed the Blood Donor Center on 67th, there was a line around the block to give blood. I have lived in NYC 8 years and worked on the Upper East Side just as long, and I have NEVER seen a line to donate blood, ever.

It warmed my heart to see people who wanted to help, were willing to wait to give blood. I was almost in tears...
That everyone seems Ok. I feel sad for all who are not. I feel sad for those who did this, for those who dispise what we stand for and for those who cannot understand what brings us together as a family. We may be despised for being New Yorkers or Americans or whatever epithet you care to throw, but, we are of a family here and the seeds that all of us cultivate can change a world. The monster that feeds this type of hate is the idea that we are different from everyone else. We, defined as whatever small circle that one chooses to surround onself with. Hate begins by exclusion. The only way then is to realise that there isn't a circle at all; There is only a little blue sphere in the middle of a big black void.
we are all each other.


We ourselves feel that what we are doing is just a drop in the ocean. But the ocean would be less because of that missing drop. - Mother Teresa.

[This message was edited by Ted & Di on 09-13-01 at 05:26 PM.]
Family, extended and otherwise:

I'm sorry I've been out of touch.

As you might imagine, in order to maintain composure and sanity, I've let myself become a machine, with short lists of tasks and functions to spend the waking hours. Via the TV, internet, the occasional newspaper, information is sucked in without much processing or reaction, just accumulation.

Past the initial shock, watching the towers burn and crumble, I've felt very little. I'm maintaining while this city, this crossroads of the known universe, is shut down a few degrees north of full-on martial law, with armed officers and soldiers on every corner. I've thought very little of it; if anything, through my filters, I've felt mild irritation at the transit inconveniences.

Unfazed, I have made soup and grilled cheese for the past two nights.
Untroubled, I have slept through the endless sirens of ambulances passing almost overhead on the Manhattan Bridge.

Knowing a fact and feeling the reality it represents are distinctly different experiences, and it is only today, on the third day, that my emotions have begun to creep out from under denial's rock.

My reaction is prismatic; I am simultaneously:

-proud as hell of my neighbors, who have turned out by the thousands upon thousands to donate blood, time, money, sweat, and endless compassion for those directly affected by this disaster. New Yorkers are a tough lot, with more heart than our 'Fuck You' reputation would bely. The violence visted upon us is more than matched by the love we've responded to it with.

-impressed with the capability, strength and sensitivity our mayor, whose policies and performances I've seldom agreed with. Rudy Guiliani, who've I've often felt to be a despicable tyrant, has risen to the occasion better than we could have hoped for, and I'm very grateful for whatever he's made of under these conditions.

-scared to my core with every new bomb threat that comes in. The rumor mill is relentless with talk of Tuesday's attack being but phase one of a much larger assault on the U.S., the next involving chemical and biological warfare amid more sneak attacks. I know that worrying will do little good, but it's inevitable in human nature.

-far less microcosmic in my vision. A friend, who was all too close to ground zero at the time of the attacks, forwarded a list I'm on the following URL, which I feel the need to circulate as well. It's an eye-opener, puts a lot of what we already know and dismiss in perspective:,3604,551036,00.html
...I then read the following article written by someone who represents all-too-broad a cross-section of the U.S., and my fear at further attacks are replaced by fear and loathing of the attitudes and potential actions of the common American reactionary:
...I consider the international witch hunt for those responsible for Tuesday's attacks, realize that our rage, pain and confusion are all-too-easily mobilized into further violence, on scales both large and small. It's just as likely that my local Arabian-American shopkeeper gets lynched as it is that our Great Nation turns Afghanistan into a parking lot, and I pray that neither possibilities come to fruition.

-determined, to go on living as a New Yorker. I know a growing number folks who have fled town out of fear and horror-driven survivalism. While I understand their actions, I cannot bring myself to do likewise. For my end it would only give our attackers more of a victory...and until something other than the smoke of the fallen WTC touches my building, I will continue to live in and love the city I've chosen to call home.
I currently share my loft apartment with a jew and a muslim, and that's a living testament to the fact that love is bigger than religion, that humanism is bigger than patriotism.


The best thing most people can do, beyond giving anything they can to ease the suffering of the victims of these acts, is to maintain their own lives as usual. I will not offer the military my services, like so many overzealous youths and their outraged veteran fathers. I will not use my passion to foster hate; the last thing we need, from the most intimate community to the world in general, is to feed this fire with that most destructive fuel.

My greatest hope for the nation at this most pivotal of moments is that, from the highest elected official down to the pimple-faced high school freshman, we are forced into a new age of awareness. Nothing like a national invasion to get Joe Average hip to the global find that nobody is innocent.

I am now going to mount up on my bike and venture over to Manhattan, donate some food, (I can't give blood). Then I'm heading over to Tomkins Square to sit with my smokes, a pad of paper, a pen, and, under the advice of my beloved Aunt, some Puccini.

La Boheme lives on in Greenwich Village...I'm sorry I've been out of touch.

Yours in times of mad love and war,


They won't take me. I'm too old.

But we must respond and deter, or it will just get worse. We are dealing with religious fanatics who are highly indoctrinated, hate us, and do not reason as we do.

BTW the Japanese were the cruelest and most murderous nation during WWII. Thousands of American and Allied lives were saved by us not having to invade Japan.

Darla (Miss Conservative Viewpoint) Diamond
I agree, we must respond and deter. How we should do that is another matter altogether. I guess I just don't have the faith that you do in the former governor of Texas and his advisors.
In my life I have seen numerous atrocities cloaked in the star-spangled banner. I would not like to see those atrocities repeated. For any reason.
I might also remind you that this country is rife with religious fanatics as well. Read the final paragraph of the National Review piece that Minerva has graciously and geniusly provided the URL to. THAT is why I am worried.
You are currently stranded in what might be considered the American heartland Omaha; I would be interested in hearing what people are saying from there, outside of our somewhat insulated community.
And BTW, I am also too old for the army. WAY too old :-)
Love, Red Hattie Hathaway
Yes Hattie, I share your concern about the way our response is carried out. However, all talk of retaliation that I have heard has been predicated on first having good hard evidence of who is responsible. On CNN, that is exactly what is being discussed right now with Senator Graham.

The government will make mistakes, we all do. But our government knows that we will gain nothing by hitting out blindly. That will only result in a propaganda victory for our enemies and the disintegration of our coalition.

"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing" - Edmund Burke
As for the viewpoints of people in the heartland, the folks here feel what I think people all over the country feel. Shock, sadness, anger. But the anger isn't blind. We all realize the importance of bringing to justice those responsible, based on incontravertable evidence.

[This message was edited by Darla Diamond on 09-13-01 at 08:20 PM.]
I'm with Hattie 100%. All the flags, hate & bullshit... it's as unnerving as the Palestinian kids celebrating in the streets. The human tragedy is incomprehensible to me. I still can't really process it. But somehow I can't help thinking that in alot of ways we are the Romans now and they are the Christians. And Darla, I know you are new to the fringe but I feel I must point out that most of these flag wavers hate your guts and everything you represent. They wish you were dead (waving an American flag or not). I'm sure your new friends in Omaha haven't met Darla.
As I always tell my students, while the high road appears miles above our heads, the low road seems a few steps down. In my opinion the our purpose in life is to work towards that higher road when we can. The low road represents defeated mob mentality. Please rise up in the face of this tragedy. I implore you.

today on the east river park (which is mostly fenced off).
i was on my rollerblades, a group of men had used gaffer tape to mount 5 american flags, 1 pow/mia, 2 gulf war and 4 smaller american flags flanking.
as i passed he offered me a small american flag, i didn't want it so i didn't take it but said thank you.
just happened to notice the most handsom man in their company. i decided to sun their as it is my usual spot.
i looked at lady liberty and cried.....

soon after i overherd the men carring on about those faggots... french faggots...
it took me directly to chi chi's words from an earlier post.
i packed up and left. is that what it means to be american.
i don't want to group everyone who waves a flag into one but these guys scared me.
IIn the posting I left above I mentioned taking the high road, which in my opinion is the smar, crafty road. For Instance, I
have a wonderful boy in my class who might as well be a muslim these days the way people treat him. I mean the way the other boys treat him is awful and I try to protect him as best I can, but I can't always be there. Secretly I gave him a knife and I told him the next time one of those boys gets near him he should "take home a little souvenir and maybe that boy will think twice about trying anymore shenanigans. Boys like that would rather die than tell they've been castrated by a "Faggot". In thinking of my own advice, maybe we should start slipping boxcutters to the women of Afghanistan. Keep our hands clean of the whole mess and sit back and read a good book. Write Me if you need any recommendations.
I'm in the book,
Virginia Pell
Although I will not be at Daddy tonight, I wanted to let everyone know how happy I am there will be a place to go. I hope you all gather, show your love and raise a lot of money for the Red Cross. I had to get out of my neighborhood, (I live on 25th and 1st next to Bellevue) the site of one more desperate family member clinging to a photo and looking so helpless was more than I could handle. My block became one of the saddest sites I have ever witnessed. Words can't express how overwelmed I became ,so I had to escape for the night.I will see you all at Saturday's DADA though.

I'm so thankful that my Click/Mother/Daddy family is safe and please have a drink for me...make mine an Empress!

Much love to all
Rob R

also, my friends and I can not get in touch with our friend Tracy, she lives in Battery Park city and no one has heard from her in days. please say a little prayer that she will be ok.

[This message was edited by glamnerd on 09-13-01 at 10:16 PM.]

[This message was edited by glamnerd on 09-15-01 at 04:32 PM.]
They tell me that the LIE is closed except for emergency personel. My presence in NYC will probably be a hinderance. One more car one more mouth to feed. I long to connect with my friends I miss Diane. No, we don't live together. I want to hear the music to do SOMETHING. I know I will be bringing in supplies from out in Suburban hell.

To all my friends, have a toast for each other, for those who cannot be and for those who will never return.

may the forces of Truth and Light prevail.
Diety bless,

I understand the resentment towards the bigotry in our society. This bigotry exists in all societies. It is not justified in any way. However, if you think you are ill treated in the United States, just take a trip to Afghanistan and see what they do to faggots over there.

I cannot believe that some of you are suggesting that these acts were in some way justified. This was nothing but the mass murder of innocents out of blind irrational hatred. These religious bigots make our home grown variety appear incredibly docile, in my humble opinion.
I dont think anyone on these boards is suggesting the attacks were justified. However, when something rotten happens to me or I find myself in a terrible situation - I ask myself "Well, how did I get here?". I believe US Policy is partly to blame for creating these monsters. They are not simply "evil" while we are "good -- although their horrifying, unconscionable acts certainly were. But instead of merely seeking revenge which Im certain we will do (was there ever any question?)- We cannot hope to forcefully annihilate all hatred against us without understanding why we are hated in the first place. Is it a sign of weakness to ask ourselves: Are we 100% right in our support of Israel right or wrong? Is what we are doing in the world right? We wont get them all if they keep replacing themselves with passionate young zealots who feel the US is to blame for their woes. The question is: How much of the blame for the creation of 'terrorists' is ours?
I agree that I don't believe anyone on these boards is saying that the attacks against America (and the world for that matter) were justified. What I believe people are trying to say is that those who are screaming loudest for America -as the home of the free and the brave - are often those who are in direct violation in word and action against the "principles" America is supposed to stand for. They are those that make racist, homophobic and xenophobic jokes, exclude anyone not of their race, class, gender, or creed and even commit hate crimes against anyone percieved as "other". There is also no doubt that minorities are treated worse in other countries. And there is no doubt these attacks were blind acts of hatred resulting in the loss of thousands of innocent lives. However, that doesn't make America faultless in its cruelty. America does have its own demons (Hiroshima, Nagasaki, Japanese Holding Camps in WWII, Vietnam, etc.). All I believe people are expressing here is that any blind group mentality is scary - it is (possibly to a lesser degree?) the same mentality that the terrorists responsible very well may have had. The time is not for widespread fear or hatred of another race or country. And I believe one can still feel sad for her country and angered by these attacks but still question everything before waving the flag as an empty gesture. I am proud that there is still freedom for us as Americans to express our ideas and share our opinions through channels such as this board. And for that I'll raise a glass.
Meanwhile, I continue to be amazed at how completely uninspiring, false and at times frightening our President appears. I watched with unsettled apprehension his national address the night of the attack .... the man has little or no public speaking ability at ALL. He looked so awkward, with his silly and obviously rehearsed hand gestures, patently insincere and downright unintelligent. He inspires no confidence whatsoever and gives no impression that he has a clue! It continues to amaze me that we have ended up with this listless, spoiled and arrogant frat boy as our president. He's not even a good figurehead, spokesmodel or front man - he's nothing! His staff members speak better than he does! And Dick Cheney - whom we haven;t seen nor heard from since the attack - is probably lying dead somewhere in an underground bunker of the White House and we're just not being told about it. The man can hardly lift a ball point pen without having a heart attack, let alone terrorist strikes on the Pentagon!

Of course, if the administration is smart they'll dispense with the armed forces and just drop Communications Director/Wonder Dyke Karen Hughes in a parachute over Afghanastan. That'll fix the terrorists right and proper!
This is the first time I have been on the boards since the tragedy, and I have to say...Eve, you are brilliant. I was with scott Lifschutz the other night and we were pouring over pictures of this years wigstock. It seemed like messages from another time. All the beauty in this community calling to us from that amazing day to remind us, on the other side of Tuesday, that we have a responsibility to carry on and keep up all the things that have made downtown special. I keep getting calls telling me to leave. Where would I go ? I am afraid but I am still hopeful that humanity will somehow take a step back and consider how awful we have been to each other. I am so sick of being gay or straight or american or athiest or christian or a chelsea fag or an east village queen or whatever other tribes we can think to divide into. Is it hopelessly nieve of me to wish for a wave of kindness and love to sweep over us and cleanse us of the nationalism, and religious superstitions that have caused so many innocent, precious lives, so much sorrow and suffering for so many centuries? I hope not. I can't see any other way out of this. My love to everyone.
Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson's comments, whose words and actions seek to capitalize on this human tragedy, show that there is a "Taliban" here in our own country, that seeks to undermine the very ideas of freedom and true faith with their hateful poses of piety. Fundamentalists such as these have been waging terrorism for years on medical professionals and abortion clinics, and their "Christian" rhetoric is an eerie echo of those faraway madmen. They have now revealed by their own words that although they claim to speak in God's name, their true purposes are to divide American unity and sow seeds of misery and hate in this hour when civilization turns to love and compassion.
Robertson has a history of making overt threats; in June 1998 he stated on the 700 Club that the city of Orlando could suffer "terrorist bombs...earthquakes, tornadoes and possibly a meteor" because the city flew gay pride flags. Despite Falwell's "backpeddling" to CNN (after he had already broadcast his message of hate to his following, no report of a retraction to that community), it's clear that this is part of a long-standing agenda to promulgate fear and hatred among Americans.GLAAD article
OK, so this is the poem that the famous "We must love one another or die" quote comes from.

I've heard that in later publications of this piece, Auden made one slight, but significant change -- revising to "We must love one another *AND* die". Not sure what else to say about that, except "noted as interesting"...

BTW, I'm Kathy Latzoni... if you're subscribed to the motherlove list, my intro/self-description is posted there as message #173. [or, if you're fascinated enough, the updated version appears at , under "New York"...]

Hope everyone's friends and families are okay.

Yr obt svt,

Kathy L.
Thanks, Hatch, for that INFORMATION on Father Judge so GROSSLY omitted in the general media. The moral of that story: As far as concerns the general viewing public for which the mass media whores, this is a crisis of FAMILY values from which perverts are excluded, as in all exercises of NORMAL society.
Falwell said his comments were misunderstood because they were "sound bytes" taken out of context in a "long theological discussion" which must have continued long after the cameras stopped rolling since nothing in the actual broadcast justified them, but he and his followers just assume on faith that Reverend Falwell knows best, for them and everybody, and such long theological discussions are so far beyond the general comprehension that it's needless and pointless to explain to us idiots and degenerates. FUCK HIM! He just substitutes the English word "God" for the terrorists' "Allah"

[This message was edited by xtzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz on 09-17-01 at 04:07 PM.]

[This message was edited by xtzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz on 09-17-01 at 04:10 PM.]
Throughout all of this, I've been deeply impressed and saddened, to the point of tears, by the tireless bravery displayed by the New York City Fire Department. They've taken such a heavy loss, and they are - along with the volunteers and EMS workers - the true heroes during what must be our city's darkest hour. In general I've always much preferred firemen to the police; as a career path firefighting tends not to attract the bullies, thugs, sadists and swindlers that swarm into the NYPD. Firefighters are not there to wield power, enforce laws, kill or control people, but simply to put out fires and save lives. They rock.

Besides, a water hose is much more phallic and sexual than a smoking pistol in my opinion. And it won't kill you ... it just gets you all wet.
I apologize for length, but found this fascinating - came to one of the many, many listservs I'm on -


This is a rational and thought provoking commentary. I think it is important enough to forward to everyone you can possibly think of. It comes from Tamim, a writer and columnist in San Francisco, who comes from Afghanistan. This is very, very interesting and a little chilling....

I've been hearing a lot of talk about "bombing Afghanistan back to the Stone Age." Ronn Owens, on KGO Talk Radio today, allowed that this would mean killing innocent people, people who had nothing to do with this atrocity, but "we're at war, we have to accept collateral damage. What else can we do?" Minutes later I heard some TV pundit discussing whether we "have the belly to do what must be done."

And I thought about the issues being raised especially hard because I am from Afghanistan, and even though I've lived here for 35 years I've never lost track of what's going on there. So I want to tell anyone who will listen how it all looks from where I'm standing. I speak as one who hates the Taliban and Osama Bin Laden.

There is no doubt in my mind that these people were responsible for the atrocity in New York.

I agree that something must be done about those monsters.

But the Taliban and Bin Laden are NOT Afghanistan. They're not even the government of Afghanistan. The Taliban are a cult of ignorant psychotics who took over Afghanistan in 1997. Bin Laden is a political criminal with a plan.

When you think Taliban, think Nazis. When you think Bin Laden, think Hitler.

And when you think "the people of Afghanistan" think "the Jews in the concentration camps."

It's not only that the Afghan people had nothing to do with this atrocity. They were the first victims of the perpetrators. They would exult if someone would come in there, take out the Taliban and clear out the rats' nest of international thugs holed up in their country.

Some say, why don't the Afghans rise up and overthrow the Taliban? The answer is, they're starved, exhausted, hurt, incapacitated, suffering. A few years ago, the United Nations estimated that there are 500,000 disabled orphans in Afghanistan--a country with no economy, no food. There are millions of widows. And the Taliban has been burying these widows alive in mass graves. The soil is littered with land mines, the farms were all destroyed by the Soviets. These are a few of the reasons why the Afghan people have not overthrown the Taliban.

We come now to the question of bombing Afghanistan back to the Stone Age. Trouble is, that's been done. The Soviets took care of it already. Make the Afghans suffer? They're already suffering. Level their houses? Done. Turn their schools into piles of rubble? Done. Eradicate their hospitals? Done. Destroy their infrastructure? Cut them off from medicine and health care? Too late. Someone already did all that.

New bombs would only stir the rubble of earlier bombs. Would they at least get the Taliban? Not likely. In today's Afghanistan, only the Taliban eat, only they have the means to move around. They'd slip away and hide.

So what else is there? What can be done, then? Let me now speak with true fear and trembling. The only way to get Bin Laden is to go in there with ground troops. When people speak of "having the belly to do what needs to be done" they're thinking in terms of having the belly to kill as many as needed. Having the belly to overcome any moral qualms about killing innocent people. Let's pull our heads out of the sand. What's actually on the table is Americans dying. And not just because some Americans would die fighting their way through Afghanistan to Bin Laden's hideout.

It's much bigger than that folks. Because to get any troops to Afghanistan, we'd have to go through Pakistan. Would they let us? Not likely. The conquest of Pakistan would have to be first. Will other Muslim nations just stand by? You see where I'm going. We're flirting with a world war between Islam and the West.

And guess what? - That's Bin Laden's program. That's exactly what he wants. That's why he did this. Read his speeches and statements. It's all right there. He really believes Islam would beat the West. It might seem ridiculous, but he figures if he can polarize the world into Islam and the West, he's got a billion soldiers. If the West wreaks a holocaust in those lands, that's a billion people with nothing left to lose, that's even better from Bin Laden's point of view.

He's probably wrong, in the end the West would win, whatever that would mean, but the war would last for years and millions would die, not just theirs but ours. Who has the belly for that?

Bin Laden does. Anyone else?

- Tamim Ansary

Thankfully, I am hearing many voices of reason such as Mr. Ansary's these days. Perhaps this is due to the facility of newer and world-wide communication technologies such as the internet.
My sister-in-law and I were just remembering what it was like during the early days of the VietNam War; just how long it was before the voices of "the Doves" were even heard. And how many lives were lost in that unwinnable, questionable conflict...
I just wish I had more faith in the leaders of this country, and believed that they had the willingness, or even ability, to listen to those voices. I don't.
I couldn't agree MORE with your post. Not only about the FDNY's hoses (as those who know me will attest) but also about their bravery.
I think it really hit home when there was a serious fire one night in the building across 14th Street from Jackie 60, as we were doing our weekly set-up. Not only were the firemen rescuing the people who lived there at the time, but one pulled out a mother cat and her litter of kittens and began giving mouth-to-mouth to each and every one. Bravery, pure and simple.
Lest one find me pompous, I am aware that these are the mumblings of a creature of the 60's. It shattered the harmony of the day and reminded me of something Nostra Domas said, "Out of the sky two metal birds would fly into two large statues in a new city." It's was like knocking twice on the door of unhappiness.
I would humbly suggest before we begin to make policy we do a bit of research on the long history of U.S./Talaban relations. It's is true that this today is very much different from that yesterday and rant if we must, rage if we must, but let us be still in our actions until the dust has cleared from our eyes.
Just like getting a second opinion for a medical operation, one's first impulse may not be the wisest one.
There is such a thing as a transcendent dimension. Christ spoke of it often especially when he said, "Let him without sin cast the first stone."
Ask yourself what really gives me security.
Security when those on whom we depended for security prove to have been unable to supply it.
When I hear talk of war, especially a "long and protracted war", Vietnam springs to mind and vast armies of body bags.
A cartoon character of the 60's called Pogo spoke to it best, "We have met the enemy and it is us."
Let us remember that a tree is judged by the fruit it produces and so it is with nations.
As the story goes Ritual was a party hosted and
produced by Master Steelow and Father Todd.
It was held Saturdays at the Limelight.
Due to recent events Master Steelow and Father Todd
not being able to be at the front line WTC recent
disasters they decided to help the way that they knew
They moved Ritual to La Nouvelle Justine's and made it
a fundraiser to benefit the American Red Cross.
As a fundraiser we were a bit skeptical at first on
such short notice.
But the scene pulled together .It was obvious to those
there when Ed Sylvia sang the National anthem and the
crowd held each other as tears fell from everyone's
eyes during the three minutes of silence that we are
indeed a community and below is a result of all of
their and everyone else's efforts.

We raised over $1750 cash +
Personal checks

Total = $ 2000.00

(Hey kids feel free to post the whole thank-you list in the topic you started for this event in NYC Events. This is primarily a discussion topic and it is huge already!

-Thanks, editrix...)

[This message was edited by Chi Chi on 09-18-01 at 12:00 PM.]

Sorry, Empress, I just recopied the Steelo e-mail without the usual pruning.


[This message was edited by Ted & Di on 09-18-01 at 05:17 PM.]
Thank you for forwarding that post Chi. It's nice to finally have someone reporting the fact that the Taliban does not represent the entire people of Afghanistan, but rather a tiny few who relish the diminished rights of women and the extinction of homosexuals. Reading that post made me think that in the best of worlds a great response for the US would be to go into Afghanistan and instead of hunting down Osama, bringing in relief to its impoverished people, setting up schools, providing major medical support to help the true population become stronger so that they themselves could fight back against the Taliban. If anyone saw the TV special "Behind The Veil" a couple of Sundays ago, you saw that the people of Afghanistan look like they already have one foot in the grave. Destroying the whole country would just turn all of them against us. Perhaps I'm only dreaming.
Today I am attempting to just GET BACK TO IT, including restoring the shattered bookings calendar now re-shattered by those who have fled town, are afraid to come to town, or are just too sad to perform.

Just when Gina Germaine helped orient me to the fact that an entire week has been lifted from the calendar - thank goddess for her Deep-South practicality - "no, mama, it's the 27th you are talking about..the 20th is two days from now.." my last remaining phone keeps going dead after two minutes. Now it doesn't seem to be working at all.

Oh, did I mention that both websites AND their associated email have been down since this morning? If you are wondering why the boards look so crappy take a look in the Welcome and Help forum for the whole sad story.

I am ready to get back to work, but I'm not sure the Fates are approving. Time will tell.

Vent over. Thanks for listening.

I have found it helpful that on my other virtual community there is now a topic called Post-attack NY - I think people were afraid to start one till they knew if there would be anything left of NY. I also find it incredibly painful to keep reading my first post of that day, or Jade's eloquent and simple "Hope everyone slept late this morning.." post that preceded it, every time I want to catch up.

It's the equivalent of the endless footage of the crash on TV, and I have to change the station.

So I'm going to freeze this topic and archive it permanently as a record of this extraordinary coming together that we had, our first true tragedy together, and one of epic proportions.

Therefore I'm asking you to continue the conversations in a few new topics scattered throughout. This is no longer one conversation, but several. It makes us all feel better and shows us once more how this most unique gift of communication was given to us just before we were to need it most.

I have heard over and over how many people were reassured to come on the boards that first day that phones were dead, dialup was dead, but the web still humming, cable modem the only lifeline out, and in.

They were watching their beloved city be torn apart - many miles from home or quite close by, but they could count each person as they posted, or hear what it sounded, smelled and felt like on the street. So many people have mentioned this in email lately, especially our friends on the left coast, and those abroad.

For FURTHER postings on WTC:

Practical info should still be left in the "Practical Info Only" topic.

To pick up the discussions here, I suggest the following new topics here in Another New York-

We Survived. Now What?
For life in NY post-attack - from hopeful signs, re-openings, etc. as well as those who have fled.

War and Peace
For all political discussions of the aftermath of attacks both locally and globally, links to thought-provoking articles, etc.

I'm leaving the village signpost up in the Versailles Room for another few days, then archiving it to the Vault. I also urge you to start a topic IF you feel it hasn't been covered by one of these, but please use discretion - people were starting topics at the drop of a hat for a while there and it only fragments the conversation.

End of World Closed (Hopefully For Good)
love to all-

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