Time for Part 2.
This topic is getting me hot. I'm not sure what for though. Not the past. I'm not like that, but hot for something. Maybe ice cream.
Now where were we?
This is Part 1 if you need to refresh your memory.
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I haven't been reading this topic for a couple of days. I'm gagging! Those pictures of Stan, Duncan and Anya Phillips are mouth watering Bobby. You too should think about doing a book.
God, you guys remember so much. It's all a blur to me. I do remember my first day in The Big City though. I got off the bus at The Port Authority and immediately went to Time Square. Of course. I was walking around with my knap sack looking up at the tall buildings etc. when these 3 Guido kids walked up to me and started whispering in my ear. "Look kid, there's these niggers behind you that's gonna fuck you up. They been following you. They got knives. If I was you I would do this. I'm gonna count to three. When I say three you run like the wind. Just keep running an' don't look back 'cause the niggers 'ill be right behind you.
One Two Three RUN!!!!!"
So I run like the wind not wanting to get "fucked up". After a block I look back and see the Guidos rolling on the ground laughing hysterically.
OK, so this was New York. I could see that I was going to need a sense of humor to survive.
God, you guys remember so much. It's all a blur to me. I do remember my first day in The Big City though. I got off the bus at The Port Authority and immediately went to Time Square. Of course. I was walking around with my knap sack looking up at the tall buildings etc. when these 3 Guido kids walked up to me and started whispering in my ear. "Look kid, there's these niggers behind you that's gonna fuck you up. They been following you. They got knives. If I was you I would do this. I'm gonna count to three. When I say three you run like the wind. Just keep running an' don't look back 'cause the niggers 'ill be right behind you.
One Two Three RUN!!!!!"
So I run like the wind not wanting to get "fucked up". After a block I look back and see the Guidos rolling on the ground laughing hysterically.
OK, so this was New York. I could see that I was going to need a sense of humor to survive.
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I remember my first day in town. Around 1976 or 7. Something like that. I was gonna get an apartment (never having been here before, except when I was 5 once for the World's Fair, I was totally naive about what getting an apartment would mean). First off I got a hotel room at a cheap place on West 57th. Can you imagine that? A cheap hotel on West 57th? There was a huge hole in the wall of the elevator. I was told it was an exit hole for a .45 slug from a currier robbery. The hole in the wall was where the bullet left the scene after passing through the currier.
As wild as it might seem, in just two days I found a one bedroom apartment for $300 a month on W. 45th Street between 8th and 9th. Two doors down was the 'Pleasure Seekers' Club'. A second storey business with brown butcher paper over all the windows. The most affluent people on the block were the ladies who worked the street. They appeared each day around 4:30 in the afternoon to hang out for a few minutes, share cigarettes and gossip, before strolling a couple blocks west towards the old bus terminal.
Cochise and Marvin were two quickly made friends, the local recreational substance providers, who would half the time send me on a fool's errand to meet them 'later' up at Columbus Circle.
West 45th was a great block then. Full of enterpreneurs from all levels of the major trades that made up Times Square. Despite the obvious harshness of the life, most the denizens I traded talk with in the neighborhood then had quite a light-hearted demeanor. Just hanging on the block was like being in a vivified, colorful story. Now all of your reminiscences here are the only thing left of that palette.
What a loss.
It is actually more perverse now when you think about it. The whole Rudiani campaign to suburbanmallify the zone so the suburbanites would feel at home, when actually those people come to TSquare for the cachet of its (now nearly totally erased) forbidden commerce.
As wild as it might seem, in just two days I found a one bedroom apartment for $300 a month on W. 45th Street between 8th and 9th. Two doors down was the 'Pleasure Seekers' Club'. A second storey business with brown butcher paper over all the windows. The most affluent people on the block were the ladies who worked the street. They appeared each day around 4:30 in the afternoon to hang out for a few minutes, share cigarettes and gossip, before strolling a couple blocks west towards the old bus terminal.
Cochise and Marvin were two quickly made friends, the local recreational substance providers, who would half the time send me on a fool's errand to meet them 'later' up at Columbus Circle.
West 45th was a great block then. Full of enterpreneurs from all levels of the major trades that made up Times Square. Despite the obvious harshness of the life, most the denizens I traded talk with in the neighborhood then had quite a light-hearted demeanor. Just hanging on the block was like being in a vivified, colorful story. Now all of your reminiscences here are the only thing left of that palette.
What a loss.
It is actually more perverse now when you think about it. The whole Rudiani campaign to suburbanmallify the zone so the suburbanites would feel at home, when actually those people come to TSquare for the cachet of its (now nearly totally erased) forbidden commerce.
You know I find it fascinating that as much as things have changed, some things stay the same. Daddy's story reminded me very much of my first day in nyc (granted mine was only a little over 2 years ago). Stepping off the bus at port authority, heading straight to times square, getting fucked with by a local.
I know that nyc has lost much of it's charm to people, but I think it still very much has it's magic. I know I came here 2 years ago looking very much for what many of you came here for over 2 decades ago. And you know what? I found it. A place where I could start fresh and live my dreams. New York still has something that nowhere else has or will ever have. It's still a place where you can express yourself like nowhere else, can find people who will accept you like nowhere else, truly is a place where you can live your dreams like nowhere else.
And I honestly think it always will be as long as people keep believing in it and don't give up.
I know that nyc has lost much of it's charm to people, but I think it still very much has it's magic. I know I came here 2 years ago looking very much for what many of you came here for over 2 decades ago. And you know what? I found it. A place where I could start fresh and live my dreams. New York still has something that nowhere else has or will ever have. It's still a place where you can express yourself like nowhere else, can find people who will accept you like nowhere else, truly is a place where you can live your dreams like nowhere else.
And I honestly think it always will be as long as people keep believing in it and don't give up.
Artemis, it still is definietly a place with a very wide and far possibility horizon. We're all just waxing nostalgic of course. And of course by comparison to any other city in this nation our home here will always be a place with a higher proportion of territoria libre.
I am sure I speak for all the board denizens when I say I hope you prosper here.
I am sure I speak for all the board denizens when I say I hope you prosper here.
I echo seven's sentiment as well, Artemis.
And I believe you will prosper because you had those dreams. It always was those that came without them, or that expected NYC to be just like home that wound up running back from whence they came, tail between legs...
I don't think we oldtimers really think New York has lost its charm. It is just that, for most of our time here, New York City seemed impervious to the changes and misguided trends that were so popular in the rest of the country. Don't forget, although The Gap is a phenomenon that had its beginnings about 20 miles due east of Times Square, it took three decades for it to take the rest of the country by storm, and make its way back here.
It was only really in the last 10 years that such changes in our local urban environment became more than just a few snowflakes, but like an actual blizzard. NYC had remained rich in odd and peculiar and unique traditions until then, so it really is shocking to us that it has lost much of its regional flavor.
Perhaps the cataclysmic events of September 11, 2001 did much to make those changes so apparent to us lifelong residents. Or at least to underscore them. Be that as it may, it seems to us that we all woke up one day and our city had changed practically overnight. And that so much was lost.
There is much lost in other areas of this country as well. Who here remembers how wonderful decrepit old Miami Beach was before it became South Beach? Or Atlanta when ancient black women still served afternoon dinner to the public in their living rooms? Or the Five and Dimes that had the same wood floors and the smell of roasted nuts no matter where you were in this country from coast to coast? All gone too. But it is in New York somehow that the loss of our treasures seems most painful to all of us. I know it does to me, though I am not exactly sure why. And I am not a big believer in hanging on to the past. After all, Tempus Fugit... The trouble is, what has replaced these things seems sterile and gimcrack in comparison.
Speaking for myself, though, I am still here in NYC spite of these changes and upheavals. Still living here among all the new Gaps and Starbucks. And try as I may, I am unable to find another place quite like New York in the entire country. Maybe the entire world. Go figure.
And how wonderful that you entered this place through that hellish gateway of Port Authority, Artemis. I always used to joke that we should set up a card table there, much like those money-collecting blue nuns used to, so we could meet people like you fresh off the bus. But I guess the Motherboards is like that in a way!
And speaking of Port Authority... who remembers the old one, before the remodelling? And how gorgeously filthy and poorly lit and stained it was? My guess is just Merlin, Bobby, and myself. But just maybe daddy and S'tan might too.
And I believe you will prosper because you had those dreams. It always was those that came without them, or that expected NYC to be just like home that wound up running back from whence they came, tail between legs...
I don't think we oldtimers really think New York has lost its charm. It is just that, for most of our time here, New York City seemed impervious to the changes and misguided trends that were so popular in the rest of the country. Don't forget, although The Gap is a phenomenon that had its beginnings about 20 miles due east of Times Square, it took three decades for it to take the rest of the country by storm, and make its way back here.
It was only really in the last 10 years that such changes in our local urban environment became more than just a few snowflakes, but like an actual blizzard. NYC had remained rich in odd and peculiar and unique traditions until then, so it really is shocking to us that it has lost much of its regional flavor.
Perhaps the cataclysmic events of September 11, 2001 did much to make those changes so apparent to us lifelong residents. Or at least to underscore them. Be that as it may, it seems to us that we all woke up one day and our city had changed practically overnight. And that so much was lost.
There is much lost in other areas of this country as well. Who here remembers how wonderful decrepit old Miami Beach was before it became South Beach? Or Atlanta when ancient black women still served afternoon dinner to the public in their living rooms? Or the Five and Dimes that had the same wood floors and the smell of roasted nuts no matter where you were in this country from coast to coast? All gone too. But it is in New York somehow that the loss of our treasures seems most painful to all of us. I know it does to me, though I am not exactly sure why. And I am not a big believer in hanging on to the past. After all, Tempus Fugit... The trouble is, what has replaced these things seems sterile and gimcrack in comparison.
Speaking for myself, though, I am still here in NYC spite of these changes and upheavals. Still living here among all the new Gaps and Starbucks. And try as I may, I am unable to find another place quite like New York in the entire country. Maybe the entire world. Go figure.
And how wonderful that you entered this place through that hellish gateway of Port Authority, Artemis. I always used to joke that we should set up a card table there, much like those money-collecting blue nuns used to, so we could meet people like you fresh off the bus. But I guess the Motherboards is like that in a way!
And speaking of Port Authority... who remembers the old one, before the remodelling? And how gorgeously filthy and poorly lit and stained it was? My guess is just Merlin, Bobby, and myself. But just maybe daddy and S'tan might too.
Yes, I think entering NYC through Port Authority is an experience unlike any other. To leave suburban america, travel on a bus with no sleep for 3 days and then step out on to the streets of New York with nothing more than what you can carry...you feel like shit, but yet it's one of the best moments of your life!
And I know you all still love it here, wasn't trying to say anything contrary to that. Was just saying how I felt about it here. It is always a joy to read the things you all write though about days gone by here in NYC. Many adventures I would have loved to of been a part of! But I just have to be thankful for being here now and for the many adventures yet to come.
And I honestly believe that with time things here will look up! History always repeats itself and the scene is always like a rollercoaster...gotta come up eventually.
And I know you all still love it here, wasn't trying to say anything contrary to that. Was just saying how I felt about it here. It is always a joy to read the things you all write though about days gone by here in NYC. Many adventures I would have loved to of been a part of! But I just have to be thankful for being here now and for the many adventures yet to come.
And I honestly believe that with time things here will look up! History always repeats itself and the scene is always like a rollercoaster...gotta come up eventually.
I agree with hatches about why we came to NYC and why I stayed for thirty years and my reasons for leaving only marginally had to do with the times we live in. Sometimes you just have to push yourself away from the table. I had too much to eat and was quite full and content. But I di indeed love to come for a snack now and then. In fact I will take up residence once again the week of April 19 - 25 for just such a brief repaste. But I must admit, if we had no Motherboards I'd feel very far away and in great need for my manhattan fix. There is so much about Manhattan that I miss but living there won't bring it back. It's gone for good. But I love the fact that there are nre kids coming and making their dreams come true. I applaude you all.
Hi All!
I used to go to Mother years ago and I just stumbled upon this forum! Love it! Hi ChiChi!Makes me yearn for NYC again (now that I live in CA). Miss all the nightlife although I've heard that most of the NYC nightlife has dissappeared. Anyone know where to go nowadays?
I'll be visiting NYC in the summer and wonder where to go...
Thanks!
I used to go to Mother years ago and I just stumbled upon this forum! Love it! Hi ChiChi!Makes me yearn for NYC again (now that I live in CA). Miss all the nightlife although I've heard that most of the NYC nightlife has dissappeared. Anyone know where to go nowadays?
I'll be visiting NYC in the summer and wonder where to go...Thanks!
Please let me preface the following with the idea that I love New York City to the marrow of my bones. However, as someone who has chosen to move, I disagree with the notion that moving out of New York means failure, leaving with your tail between your legs, or that people who leave are somehow weak or can't handle the hardship. Unless you are rich, New York is a damn hard place to live. Every dollar you make goes to rent unless you are lucky enough to have a reasonably priced apartment, and daily amenities are always lacking. If you are not someone who wants to suck corporate ass, you are always hustling, which is exhausting and leaves only those with the most iron of constitutions actual time and energy to create.
Also, I personally cannot create without being relaxed. Some people create amazing things in harsh circumstances, goddess bless them. I think however that I am not unusual and I have no doubt that the stress of rising rents,vicious slum lords who harass their tenants to get them out of decently priced apartments, and a culture which is increasingly shallow and negative is part of the reason that many artists are leaving the city. And how can you create if you can't experiment, and how can you experiment if you have to choose between food or the materials of your medium? Nothing is more artistically constipating than thinking that everything you make needs to be profitable. And as far as the cliche of the suffering artist, I think it is only reasonable to expect a certain quality of life in a country where basic comfort is taken for granted.
The ray of hope is that New York has always had her cycles, and I have no doubt that this is only another one. And since the mundane, mainstream somnambulists who now populate much of Manhattan seem to follow the artists, be grateful for your pied pipers who are taking momentary respites from the city.
Also, I personally cannot create without being relaxed. Some people create amazing things in harsh circumstances, goddess bless them. I think however that I am not unusual and I have no doubt that the stress of rising rents,vicious slum lords who harass their tenants to get them out of decently priced apartments, and a culture which is increasingly shallow and negative is part of the reason that many artists are leaving the city. And how can you create if you can't experiment, and how can you experiment if you have to choose between food or the materials of your medium? Nothing is more artistically constipating than thinking that everything you make needs to be profitable. And as far as the cliche of the suffering artist, I think it is only reasonable to expect a certain quality of life in a country where basic comfort is taken for granted.
The ray of hope is that New York has always had her cycles, and I have no doubt that this is only another one. And since the mundane, mainstream somnambulists who now populate much of Manhattan seem to follow the artists, be grateful for your pied pipers who are taking momentary respites from the city.
I am sorry arabella, I did not mean to offend...
I may have misphrased things a bit; I was actually thinking of those cocky ones who came to this city quite a few years ago with no dreams, and no philosophy, except perhaps that this town owed them a living. And they were surprised to find out that it did not.
Of course I know that today a NYC apartment costs a king's (or queen's) ransom. And in order to move here and get settled one must surmount a great many obstacles, that have grown much greater over the years. And as a result, this city has most certainly lost a large part of its vital and essential spirit. And it is a great loss, indeed. Unfortunately, that includes those such as yourself, at least for this year.
But, oddly enough, I don't believe that NYC is the center of the universe at all. Art of all kinds is, after all, made in a great many other places. What is important is that artists have some kind of interaction with each other and exchange ideas. In short, form a community of sorts. Something this city used to encourage. And something I see less and less of here as each year goes by.
Nevertheless, I still see new people come here each year, young and old, in search of that freedom and sense of community they were unable to find "back home." And whether or not they remain, I will always have enormous respect for them.
I may have misphrased things a bit; I was actually thinking of those cocky ones who came to this city quite a few years ago with no dreams, and no philosophy, except perhaps that this town owed them a living. And they were surprised to find out that it did not.
Of course I know that today a NYC apartment costs a king's (or queen's) ransom. And in order to move here and get settled one must surmount a great many obstacles, that have grown much greater over the years. And as a result, this city has most certainly lost a large part of its vital and essential spirit. And it is a great loss, indeed. Unfortunately, that includes those such as yourself, at least for this year.
But, oddly enough, I don't believe that NYC is the center of the universe at all. Art of all kinds is, after all, made in a great many other places. What is important is that artists have some kind of interaction with each other and exchange ideas. In short, form a community of sorts. Something this city used to encourage. And something I see less and less of here as each year goes by.
Nevertheless, I still see new people come here each year, young and old, in search of that freedom and sense of community they were unable to find "back home." And whether or not they remain, I will always have enormous respect for them.
I know what you are saying Arabella. I have this friend who is a waiter, not an actor/waiter, artist/waiter, designer/waiter, dancer/waiter... but a waiter. God bless him, he's just a drunk. He shares an apartment in Manhattan with another mess. My friend works six days a week in a restaurant and actually makes a lot of money (well, anywhere else but here it's a lot). His share of the rent is like 2 grand a month! That means that his rent and $ for booze soak up his entire salary. He works six hard shifts a week just to get drunk and live in Manhattan. I keep telling him that he's crazy. He can get drunk anywhere, why work so hard? I tell him, "It's not like you go to museums or anything".
I guess that's not exactly what you are talking about Arabella but my point is about "quality of life". Why kill yourself if you can do what you do, in his case get drunk, in some more live-able place!
I guess that's not exactly what you are talking about Arabella but my point is about "quality of life". Why kill yourself if you can do what you do, in his case get drunk, in some more live-able place!
I agree with you too Arabella. I am a Native New Yorker and everyone that I knew grew up, got married, and moved out of the city to follow their careers, raise a family, and to find more affordable housing. It was REALLY expensive living in NYC and you had to have a roommate or two, or three in order to afford it. I still keep in touch with a few friends in the city and they tell me that there are so many luxury condominums being built that only the rich or the Europeans can afford moving in (being that the Euro is MUCH stronger than the US dollar). NYC does stress you out at times with the hustle and bustle but I find as you get older, you appreciate your health more and need to find ways to relax and take the slow route. LOL! Although I live in SF now where the weather is SO predictable, I really do miss the NYC excitement. Perhaps I can convince my husband to move us back there...
There's definitely nothing like good ol' New York!
There's definitely nothing like good ol' New York!
Hatches, no offense taken from your post. Perhaps it echoed a sentiment I already have within about leaving, which is why it stuck out. It is one of the biggest decisons one can make to decide to move on, and there is always ambivelance surrounding it, I guess. My subconscious tortures me with lucid dreams of walking down the beautiful tree lined streets of the village, and I wake up with a pit in my stomach. But alas...At any rate, this board provides a wonderful service to those of us who miss the city and her most valuable resource, the people.
Daddy, I agree with your post. It is amazing what one will put up with to live in Manhattan.
When I left, I thought that I would be so happy to have a decent standard of living that I wouldn't miss it at all, but now that I have an objective viewpoint, I see differently. There is an indescribable, almost spiritual quality about New York: a new age friend says that the bedrock of Manhattan has a large deposit of quartz which is why it has always been such an energy center. It certainly makes one think...
Daddy, I agree with your post. It is amazing what one will put up with to live in Manhattan.
When I left, I thought that I would be so happy to have a decent standard of living that I wouldn't miss it at all, but now that I have an objective viewpoint, I see differently. There is an indescribable, almost spiritual quality about New York: a new age friend says that the bedrock of Manhattan has a large deposit of quartz which is why it has always been such an energy center. It certainly makes one think...
Greetings, Chynna! I was actually considering starting a "Farewell Charming Old S.F." topic, or something like that, the other day, in "Elsewhere..."
How long have you lived there? When I first spent time there, BART was just being built... (No, daddy, I didn't go panning for gold!)
Anyway, regarding your earlier post, keep checking here and mothernyc.com for nightclub news before your summertime visit, and you will be certain to keep abreast the latest NYC nightlife news and events.
How long have you lived there? When I first spent time there, BART was just being built... (No, daddy, I didn't go panning for gold!)
Anyway, regarding your earlier post, keep checking here and mothernyc.com for nightclub news before your summertime visit, and you will be certain to keep abreast the latest NYC nightlife news and events.
Thanks Hatches!
I'll keep checking in on here for the nightclub news.
I've been living here for a couple of years but house bound with my "wifey" duties so I haven't seen all of SF let alone all of CA. There's that song "I left my heart in San Fransisco" but for me it's New York.
I'll keep checking in on here for the nightclub news.
I've been living here for a couple of years but house bound with my "wifey" duties so I haven't seen all of SF let alone all of CA. There's that song "I left my heart in San Fransisco" but for me it's New York.
Ah, I was going to ask you if those twins still promenade around the Union Square area-- I just thought of them the other day. They are twin sisters, and very old, wearing snappy matching outfits from the 1960s. Even in the late 1990s, one could be sure to spot them, wearing a wild new ensemble every day. They hand out business cards that say "The San Francisco Twins," and seem to enjoy posing for pictures.
Here's one.
But, back to "charming old New York..."
Here's one.
But, back to "charming old New York..."
I've been watching the Ric Burns/PBS "New York" documentary (It's about 12 hours long). I thought it might give me some perspective on the state of things, and it has. New York has gone through many disasters and this is just another. New York has always been about real estate and making money. Literally from day one. It was owned and operated by the Dutch East India Company (a subsidary of The Dutch West India Company -for which Hattie used to work as a secretary if I remember correctly). Anyway, The English took it over, opened it as a whorehouse for their army and changed the name to New York. It's always been about money here. While Boston, Virginia, actually ALL the other colonies were about religion, New York was only ever about the dollar. If Alexander Hamilton saw it today he would be very happy.
(Until the sun went down and there wasn't any place to go dancing).
(Until the sun went down and there wasn't any place to go dancing).
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Actually, Daddy, if I remember correctly from those days behind my desk with the abacus, The East India Company came first. After all, they thought they were headed for Ceylon and those wacky Spice Islands when they cruised up the Hudson on the Half Moon. Quickly realizing their mistake, though, they formed The West India Company, which was similar to its sister not only by name, but by the way everyone, from the cleaning lady to the director embezzled its funds. How else do you think I have been able to pay these outrageous New York rents for all these years?
Daddy, I am in an urban archaeology class right now that is specialized in NYC history and archaeology. I've come across some amazing info I would never have given thought to had it never come up in the research. I've been given permission to rifle through some of the original manuscripts from the 16th-20th centuries concerning the development, political, and personal (diaries) aspects of NYC at the NYPL, so I'm very excited.
We're also excavating someone's 18th century outhouse in the Village. I'm happy as a clam.
We're also excavating someone's 18th century outhouse in the Village. I'm happy as a clam.
Let us know if you come across any viable contraband that may have been tossed in the antique loo during some bygone raid, will you please? Maybe some laudinum?
Wow, that class sounds great Betty. Can Hattie and I sit in some day? It would bring back memories.
Anytime, Daddy.
Of late I've become resigned to the notion that I'll be renting for the rest of my life, or at least as long as I remain in this stinking town. Owning an NYC condo seems as remote a possibility at this point as skyrocketing to Andromeda, even as I continue to squirrel money away for a future downpayment/mortgage. At times the possibility of buying a little house somewhere with a pool in the backyard has tempted me, but I'll probably remain a slave of New York till the Grim Reaper comes, ever-aspiring to that loft with the exposed brick and wood-burning fireplace. (maybe ... if my novel sells ... well whatever)
This town is so obscenely expensive, it's the new Hong Kong.
This town is so obscenely expensive, it's the new Hong Kong.
Oh please don't say so. I don't wanna pay $20 for a shot of Jack Daniels.
As per the original post on this topic: The PLAZA! Bloomberg did something sort of right, he 'Saved" the Plaza -- under enormous pressure from hotel emplyee unions!
This is a funny article with just the right dose of mordant wit:
http://www.curbed.com/archives/2005/04/14/breaking_plaza_hotel_saved_sort_of.php
The lobby I'm betting will re-open as a trashy 1920s theme park. Cornball moms and daughters will continue going to the Palm Court to have debutante moments. Wannabe hookers may nostalgically trawl in the Oak Bar for out of towners. The rich johns will jaw their tobacco-flavoured chewing gum and drink themselves senseless on $20. JDs "just like in the old days." Tourists will stomp through the lobby and trash the rest rooms. A great NY institution will live on, flattened by homogenized memory and congealed in lucite.
Farewell Charming Old NY!! I am going back to the other desert, the one with the other kind of toad. After I dance around Bergdorf's tonight... helping to scatter the ashes of a rich old (dead) bitch, allegedly sprinkled in the Delman shoe salon.
Ever onward and ... sideways.
This is a funny article with just the right dose of mordant wit:
http://www.curbed.com/archives/2005/04/14/breaking_plaza_hotel_saved_sort_of.php
The lobby I'm betting will re-open as a trashy 1920s theme park. Cornball moms and daughters will continue going to the Palm Court to have debutante moments. Wannabe hookers may nostalgically trawl in the Oak Bar for out of towners. The rich johns will jaw their tobacco-flavoured chewing gum and drink themselves senseless on $20. JDs "just like in the old days." Tourists will stomp through the lobby and trash the rest rooms. A great NY institution will live on, flattened by homogenized memory and congealed in lucite.
Farewell Charming Old NY!! I am going back to the other desert, the one with the other kind of toad. After I dance around Bergdorf's tonight... helping to scatter the ashes of a rich old (dead) bitch, allegedly sprinkled in the Delman shoe salon.
Ever onward and ... sideways.
http://www.newyorkmetro.com/nymetro/realestate/features/11960/index.html
At the above link is a good story about the Ansonia building at 73rd and Broadway replete with its 1970's incarnation as the Continental Baths and later as Plato's Retreat. I like the bit about Bette Middler's piano accompanist being Barry Manilow wearing only a bath towel. Choice reading. Full of nineteenth century pervs and modern rip-off tycoons.
At the above link is a good story about the Ansonia building at 73rd and Broadway replete with its 1970's incarnation as the Continental Baths and later as Plato's Retreat. I like the bit about Bette Middler's piano accompanist being Barry Manilow wearing only a bath towel. Choice reading. Full of nineteenth century pervs and modern rip-off tycoons.
So Messy Madge et Hubby were strollin around the WEST Village at the weekend... oh how it's changed... I moved there in '91 and lived over that end for 6yrs... it was 'gay' then. Now it's just "Barneys".(And I don't mean the purple dinosaur). It's just an Epcot version of the Village... Consumerism very lil real culture.. just packaged goods... and flocks of Sex n City Wannabees shuffling in from L.I. to Marc Jacobs and Magnolia Bakery. It's way too twee... I cant wait till they Epcot Chinatown too ...am sure that will 'go' at one point!
PS on another note.... I did venture to Brighton Beach with my kid on Sunday... that place is a hoot... i just love the over processed mad colored hair on the women in the stack heels, tight pink nylon leisure suits, wearing proud their underbreast belly fat that is larger than their tits! God bless Brighton Beach feel right at home there!
Gone!
In just a couple of days the gorgeous old Variety Theater was torn to the ground. The oldest continuosly run theater in America is now rubble. And what's going to replace it? We hear a twenty story NYU Dorm. What else?
In the last couple of years NYU has torn down the legendary and landmarked Palladium to put up an ugly twenty story dorm, and they called it The Palladium just to rub it in. Around the corner they tore down the legendary and landmarked Louchow's Restaurant to put up an ugly twenty story dorm.
How could they do that you ask?
Well, there was a fire and Luchow's burned.
But isn't it directly across the street, maybe 30 feet away from the fire house you ask?
Why yes it is...
Funny how it burned down and became a dorm.
Yes, funny.
So now The Variety is gone.
Less historic Old New York.
More NYU dorms.
More hideous NYU students on cell phones.
More Lawyers and investment bankers.
Not a fair trade if you ask me.
The Variety Theater (with the new Palladium Dorm in the backround) and The beautiful Luchow's.
Gone.
In just a couple of days the gorgeous old Variety Theater was torn to the ground. The oldest continuosly run theater in America is now rubble. And what's going to replace it? We hear a twenty story NYU Dorm. What else?
In the last couple of years NYU has torn down the legendary and landmarked Palladium to put up an ugly twenty story dorm, and they called it The Palladium just to rub it in. Around the corner they tore down the legendary and landmarked Louchow's Restaurant to put up an ugly twenty story dorm.
How could they do that you ask?
Well, there was a fire and Luchow's burned.
But isn't it directly across the street, maybe 30 feet away from the fire house you ask?
Why yes it is...
Funny how it burned down and became a dorm.
Yes, funny.
So now The Variety is gone.
Less historic Old New York.
More NYU dorms.
More hideous NYU students on cell phones.
More Lawyers and investment bankers.
Not a fair trade if you ask me.
The Variety Theater (with the new Palladium Dorm in the backround) and The beautiful Luchow's.
Gone.
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its horrific what has happened to this city in the last 6yrs just HORRIFIC.
Thanks God I have the memories of the ole Palladium.. the first wk I arrived in the city i attended a amall birthday party in the legendary Paladium 'engine room' for Quentin Crisp.. it was there I met for the first time.. Daddy, the Empress (also there was Kelly Cuttrone, Ed Callahan, Barroness Sherry, Lee Chappell, Joey Arias.. the rest are a blur!).
It was also at the Paladium where I did the very last public cartwheel i ever did. And it was ALSO in the Palladium where I met the two hot Moroccan 'terrorists' one new years eve... bringin em back to my pad as my then 'husband' sat with a tranny zombied watching tv grinding their teeth coked to the gills....awww those were the days, when my daily life was like a David Lynch movie.........now on the very same spot are those ghastley students, its all gone Mary Kate and Ashley.
Thanks God I have the memories of the ole Palladium.. the first wk I arrived in the city i attended a amall birthday party in the legendary Paladium 'engine room' for Quentin Crisp.. it was there I met for the first time.. Daddy, the Empress (also there was Kelly Cuttrone, Ed Callahan, Barroness Sherry, Lee Chappell, Joey Arias.. the rest are a blur!).
It was also at the Paladium where I did the very last public cartwheel i ever did. And it was ALSO in the Palladium where I met the two hot Moroccan 'terrorists' one new years eve... bringin em back to my pad as my then 'husband' sat with a tranny zombied watching tv grinding their teeth coked to the gills....awww those were the days, when my daily life was like a David Lynch movie.........now on the very same spot are those ghastley students, its all gone Mary Kate and Ashley.
Ah, I remember it well...
The party in the Engine Room for Quentin Crisp.
Your last public cartwheel.
The two hot Moroccan 'terrorists'.
But mostly I remember your then 'husband' and 'the Tranny'.
Bah!
The party in the Engine Room for Quentin Crisp.
Your last public cartwheel.
The two hot Moroccan 'terrorists'.
But mostly I remember your then 'husband' and 'the Tranny'.
Bah!
And the Mike Todd Room! Scene of many group nose candy snorts. The 'Love Machine' party on Tuesdays before Formika became the Mistress and Lahoma Van Zandt was still falling onstage for effect. Those were the days.
I can't believe they tore down the VARIETY!
Utterly shocking.
What is wrong with people.
Don't they have eyes?
You all must be hysterical... that's your neighborhood.
Utterly shocking.
What is wrong with people.
Don't they have eyes?
You all must be hysterical... that's your neighborhood.
Ten years from now everything south of 14th to Houston and East of B'way will be the greater NYU Technitutionalplex and Consumer Carnivale. Around Astor Place there will be a little East Village Pavillion with The Junky Rollercoaster, Bohemian Souvenier Shop, and dioramma of T2 Park. NYU students will individually sponsor the twelve actual performers and artists that still live in the area. Unfortunately for civic planners this will also create the largest single concentration of recreational drug users in Manhattan. It's true, some things never change.
It seems that NYU has learned a valuable lesson from the whole Cooper Square debacle when dealing with those durned preservationists: Keep it all secret and lie; that way no one will object when another piece of NY history is gutted.
From The Villager 12/21/04...
"Asked if N.Y.U. had any interest in the property, university spokesperson John Beckman said, "We've had no conversation about this. Nobody has approached us about this. I'm not going to get into these hypotheticals. I think we need to get out of the habit of, every time a piece of property changes hands in the neighborhood," assuming N.Y.U. is involved, Beckman said. "When N.Y.U. is having serious discussions about acquiring or leasing a property, we inform the community," he continued. "And that's how it's been and that's how it's going to be going forward."
Right.
The sad fact is that there is a major building boom going on all over Manhattan, and buildings that are an important part of our history are being torn down right and left. Witness the fight to save old PS 64 on East 9th Street, and that's still going on...
In my neck of the woods, though no historical structures have been ravaged yet, every available bit of land is being built on to create (surprise, surprise) even more million dollar + condos; I guess they will house those NYU students after they graduate.
Don't get me wrong, I am all for change and progress. But this is a free-for-all. There's not an iota of sensible city planning in any of it. And it's all been given a rubber stamp by our City Administration. This should definitely become an issue in the upcoming election. And I cannot wait to see Bloomberg's final plan for the "revitalization" of the Lower East Side Waterfront. Bah!
From The Villager 12/21/04...
"Asked if N.Y.U. had any interest in the property, university spokesperson John Beckman said, "We've had no conversation about this. Nobody has approached us about this. I'm not going to get into these hypotheticals. I think we need to get out of the habit of, every time a piece of property changes hands in the neighborhood," assuming N.Y.U. is involved, Beckman said. "When N.Y.U. is having serious discussions about acquiring or leasing a property, we inform the community," he continued. "And that's how it's been and that's how it's going to be going forward."
Right.
The sad fact is that there is a major building boom going on all over Manhattan, and buildings that are an important part of our history are being torn down right and left. Witness the fight to save old PS 64 on East 9th Street, and that's still going on...
In my neck of the woods, though no historical structures have been ravaged yet, every available bit of land is being built on to create (surprise, surprise) even more million dollar + condos; I guess they will house those NYU students after they graduate.
Don't get me wrong, I am all for change and progress. But this is a free-for-all. There's not an iota of sensible city planning in any of it. And it's all been given a rubber stamp by our City Administration. This should definitely become an issue in the upcoming election. And I cannot wait to see Bloomberg's final plan for the "revitalization" of the Lower East Side Waterfront. Bah!
NYU has got to be bigger than the Catholic Church at this point. In New York anyway.
And...
I was told the other day that the way they got around the "landmark problem" in tearing down The Palladium was that it suffered severe "sound damage" from its years as a night club.
Oh,
So now it's MY fault.
And...
I was told the other day that the way they got around the "landmark problem" in tearing down The Palladium was that it suffered severe "sound damage" from its years as a night club.
Oh,
So now it's MY fault.
And...
I recently cabbed by our old JACKIE 60 / MOTHER space. It's all boarded up and under construction, as to what it will be, I have no idea. At one point I heard an Armani store. We'll soon find out.
When we closed MOTHER we wanted to bomb the whole thing and save it the indignity of becoming a boutique, a hotel or a dormitory. When I designed the last invite, (MOTHER's END) this is REALLY what we had in mind. It's funny, when I drove by and looked through the doors at the demolition and this is EXACTLY what it looked like.
I recently cabbed by our old JACKIE 60 / MOTHER space. It's all boarded up and under construction, as to what it will be, I have no idea. At one point I heard an Armani store. We'll soon find out.
When we closed MOTHER we wanted to bomb the whole thing and save it the indignity of becoming a boutique, a hotel or a dormitory. When I designed the last invite, (MOTHER's END) this is REALLY what we had in mind. It's funny, when I drove by and looked through the doors at the demolition and this is EXACTLY what it looked like.
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I've suspected for some time now that NYU is really a big real estate conglomerate masquerading as a school.
Still, the multitudes of young college boys roaming the hood do turn me out. The other day in K-Mart there was a 6'2" blonde hottie I was on the verge of offering a live-in houseboy position. I should be in charge of Twink Scholarships.
Still, the multitudes of young college boys roaming the hood do turn me out. The other day in K-Mart there was a 6'2" blonde hottie I was on the verge of offering a live-in houseboy position. I should be in charge of Twink Scholarships.
that invite reminds me of a piercing i used to have.
Why would you think that NYU was anything more than a $ making establishment. They ain't selling 'education' they are selling NYC. Therefore they need to pitch 'upscale livin' for these rich kids $$ to be spent here. How silly to think it was about education!
How funny when u look in Blighty they house students in converted tower blocks (projects) as an urban regeneration project yet in NYC they are housed in better quality homes that real NYers who have grafted in this city for years... but its ALL about the Benjamins baby.
Back to the whole America properganda wheel...
How funny when u look in Blighty they house students in converted tower blocks (projects) as an urban regeneration project yet in NYC they are housed in better quality homes that real NYers who have grafted in this city for years... but its ALL about the Benjamins baby.
Back to the whole America properganda wheel...
Anna, that is a pointed observation that NYU students are afforded better accommodations than regular citizens. And Lex, if you think Kmart has been by proxy made into a twink cruz by NYU just lay down on the lawn in Tompkins Square Park on a weekend and you will be surrounded by young novitiates engaged in make out sessions -just lay your paperback over your Freshman's Friend while you scope the scene out please. The one other really large development I've seen, and who couldn't notice, is the block long ugly on Houston at the Bowery that will contain a Whole Foods plus some kind of Olympic sized swimming pool and, viola!, apparently no parking at all for the six or seven storeys of apartments on top of it all.
> Why would you think that NYU was anything more than a $
> making establishment. They ain't selling 'education' they are
> selling NYC.
Having been a NYU Student myself (Courant Institute, not Tish), I can testify that some of the teachers/researchers there are some of the most amazing minds I've had the chance to meet.
Also, 2 things:
One: NYU students have always been a nice supply of fresh blood for this city, and that includes the nightlife (all nightlife).
Two: Sure, NYU's a money-making machine with 2 heads (education and real estate), but blaming "NYC is dying" on NYU seems to be a confusion between cause and consequences: Education is not public in this country, what do you think happens next?
Just my $.02.
Justine
> making establishment. They ain't selling 'education' they are
> selling NYC.
Having been a NYU Student myself (Courant Institute, not Tish), I can testify that some of the teachers/researchers there are some of the most amazing minds I've had the chance to meet.
Also, 2 things:
One: NYU students have always been a nice supply of fresh blood for this city, and that includes the nightlife (all nightlife).
Two: Sure, NYU's a money-making machine with 2 heads (education and real estate), but blaming "NYC is dying" on NYU seems to be a confusion between cause and consequences: Education is not public in this country, what do you think happens next?
Just my $.02.
Justine
Fair enuff Justine... but I do feel that on the whole NYU's MARKETING effect on the city is less about education but more about 'pitching' kids to come to the city. There is NO Reason why nyu students housing should be prioritized over people that have lived here for years who now no longer can even afford to live here.. thats whats sad. If u look in the UK for example as I said students are the ones sent to regenerate areas that are in decline, pushing the student income into those areas has shown to really help. And as the students are all just 'transient' anyway it really helps.
La M, the point is NYU's imposition on the infrastructure of a type of accommodations that, as Anna points out, rub out the affordable housing regular ole citizens need. Many forces are degrading the NYC we know, not just NYU. But in the 'East Village' NYU is perhaps THE major culprit. I'm sure the school probably affords those who can pay the relatively very high tuition at NYU an opportunity for top flight education, if you know how to exploit an institution of its kind. But to my knowledge, as an educational, economic and real estate entity, it has not contributed much of anything for the well being of the majority of the inhabitants of the 'East Village' where much of its infrastructure is encroaching. I'm sure there are numerous programs NYU runs that have residual benefits for the average citizen but the sum total of those programs don't amount to preservation of affordable housing, or the architectural integrity of the area either. I think it would be hard to argue that as an institution its influence on real estate is not disproportionate to the benefits it provides to the average inhabitant of downtown. That's all.
Eeek, i guess I have not been out and about for a while...we went to see the Met Opera "Tosca" in the park, which was great except for the 2 Paris Hilton wannabes in front of us who never got off their cell phones through the entire first act...thankfully they left before Act 2 began but why the hell would you go to an Opera and not listen to one note? Anyway, we wandered the Upper West Side looking for an after opera drink and it resembled a shopping mall and so did the people,,,creepy, very "Dawn of the Dead". So we cab it downtown to the, ugh, Meatpacking District, where my friend lives and looking for an outdoor place to smoke and drink, she takes me to the Maritime Hotel. UGH, I think these girls are living in some distortion of Sex and the City and America's Next Top Model and the guys are just ugly or pitiful ,fashion and look wise...yuk! and they are all scurrying about the area like roaches in trendy, tacky clothes, from one wannabe model bar to another ....this is very depressing.
It's so sad to see NYC change like this. I have been away from NYC for awhile now. I moved just after NYU built those dorms on third ave and 11 st, where the parking lot was. I remember the Palladium, Variety and Luchow's. Luchow's became a club, I think it was called the Union Club, then it had a go as a new wave club, like the Cat club, but failed, no one went there.
I have lived in NYC most of my life, I arrived there at 2 years of age. I grew up in the Bronx, so as kids we would always go to Times Square to hang out. This is what I miss most of NYC, the sleeze factor, it seems like NYC has been cleaned up a bit.
Baltimore, where I now live, still has some sleeze left in it.
I have lived in NYC most of my life, I arrived there at 2 years of age. I grew up in the Bronx, so as kids we would always go to Times Square to hang out. This is what I miss most of NYC, the sleeze factor, it seems like NYC has been cleaned up a bit.
Baltimore, where I now live, still has some sleeze left in it.
> Meatpacking District
> UGH, I think these girls are living in some distortion of Sex and the City and America's Next Top Model
Ha, I had the same exact experience last Monday;your reference to the tv-shows and magazine world is on point too. I just can't relate to this at all.
> UGH, I think these girls are living in some distortion of Sex and the City and America's Next Top Model
Ha, I had the same exact experience last Monday;your reference to the tv-shows and magazine world is on point too. I just can't relate to this at all.
You're right Babette, Luchow's was a couple of different clubs. I DJed there a few times. It was so beautiful.
And the parking lot on E. 11th St! I remember the hookers there very well, gorgeous! I neve saw Taxi Driver (I'm probably the only one in the world who hasn't) but I know it was filmed all around there.
I'm glad for you that Baltimore still has some flavor. I know that's why John Waters is still there.
And the parking lot on E. 11th St! I remember the hookers there very well, gorgeous! I neve saw Taxi Driver (I'm probably the only one in the world who hasn't) but I know it was filmed all around there.
I'm glad for you that Baltimore still has some flavor. I know that's why John Waters is still there.
Yes Daddy, I remember the hookers. There were some nights when I came out of the Ritz after watching a band, some guys cruising for hookers would ask me, "how much". Damn these guys must have been desperate to ask me for a date.
I liked the cieling skylight inside of Luchow's, it gave the club a spooky atmosphere, it would have made a good goth club.
I liked the cieling skylight inside of Luchow's, it gave the club a spooky atmosphere, it would have made a good goth club.
First of all...i just read part one and two of this post...
I seriously have so much to think about in regards to my return...
I know I have a few years to do something but I hope to come back with a vengeance in Honor of the survivors...Some sort of a push for more individuality amist, possibly among the clones that appear to be infiltrating.
But if not...I just hope to make a great BIG THOUGHT PROVOKING Scene.
I was holding way too much back, last time around.
Such a fight to connect with a true sense of positive Humanity...and the self discovery?
Man it was brutal!!!
Goddess Bless all of you who are serious forces of nature and have shaped and supported the life and times of the eras before me, there.
I adore reading all the recollections, as sometimes I feel cheated by my Birthday.
Muffin and I are looking forward to being not Jaded for awhile.
It's really tough to avoid it...
(Esspecially After banging myself over the head with several moves to various cities and towns, that is!)
But seriously...
I needed to step away to see just how powerful the energy is in NYC...Now I have more of an idea of what to do with it.
I look forward to coming back and doing what I can to it.
PS...Daddy...i think John Waters is still in Baltimore because he doesnt want to be bothered...
I could be wrong!
hahahaha.
I seriously have so much to think about in regards to my return...
I know I have a few years to do something but I hope to come back with a vengeance in Honor of the survivors...Some sort of a push for more individuality amist, possibly among the clones that appear to be infiltrating.
But if not...I just hope to make a great BIG THOUGHT PROVOKING Scene.
I was holding way too much back, last time around.
Such a fight to connect with a true sense of positive Humanity...and the self discovery?
Man it was brutal!!!
Goddess Bless all of you who are serious forces of nature and have shaped and supported the life and times of the eras before me, there.
I adore reading all the recollections, as sometimes I feel cheated by my Birthday.
Muffin and I are looking forward to being not Jaded for awhile.
It's really tough to avoid it...
(Esspecially After banging myself over the head with several moves to various cities and towns, that is!)
But seriously...
I needed to step away to see just how powerful the energy is in NYC...Now I have more of an idea of what to do with it.
I look forward to coming back and doing what I can to it.
PS...Daddy...i think John Waters is still in Baltimore because he doesnt want to be bothered...
I could be wrong!
hahahaha.
Whether you are wrong or not, just don't move in to the same hotel he lives in!!!!!!!
Amber Ray...those were beautiful words!
And it seems that in recent months that more and more people are beginning to have a simialar state of mind. People are striving to establish individuality again. Some fantastic new parties where people can express themselves are popping up!
I think we are going to be entering back into a very exciting new stage in NYC soon!
And it seems that in recent months that more and more people are beginning to have a simialar state of mind. People are striving to establish individuality again. Some fantastic new parties where people can express themselves are popping up!
I think we are going to be entering back into a very exciting new stage in NYC soon!
Let us hope so. Meanwhile the Bowery and Second Avenue are becoming like Times Square in terms of the hordes of people converging on the street. I still love the East Village; there's so much to enjoy about it. But it does get annoying when you can't even get Thai in your own hood because SEA has been taken over by obnoxious Tommy Hilfiger-wearing twats yapping on cell phones about their high-yield bonds. Even Avenue B, once a bastion of crime, urban decay and rough trade, has been overrun by Long Island J-Crews looking for the next model lounge. Ah well. At least the furlough'd sailors feel comfortable enough to venture down here now. And a string of loft parties have begun to crop up. One must find the silver lining in the cloud, I suppose. Let's try to be optimistic.
Farewell Charming Old Whipshack!
The new landlord, rampaging real estate developers of Chelsea, have asked us to close down.
Lots of lumber in the old loft tonight.
Talk about loft parties, Lex! If anyone wants to party like the Last Days of Pompeii, THAT room is still intact! Before it ends up exploded on the sidewalk (they are demolishing the building) talk to me about renting party space @ 1,000 sq. feet or so. (I have no downstairs neighbor anymore!) I'm here at least through the summer.
Love
Stan
Email if you please.
The new landlord, rampaging real estate developers of Chelsea, have asked us to close down.
Lots of lumber in the old loft tonight.
Talk about loft parties, Lex! If anyone wants to party like the Last Days of Pompeii, THAT room is still intact! Before it ends up exploded on the sidewalk (they are demolishing the building) talk to me about renting party space @ 1,000 sq. feet or so. (I have no downstairs neighbor anymore!) I'm here at least through the summer.
Love
Stan
Email if you please.
The Whipshack is gone, long live The Whipshack!
I'm sure The whipshack will continue in some form, somewhere. (It always does).
And let us never forget...
it was The Whipshack that gave us Jackie 60.
I'm sure The whipshack will continue in some form, somewhere. (It always does).
And let us never forget...
it was The Whipshack that gave us Jackie 60.
The Whipshack is an idea, an emotion, a spilled martini. You can't swing a wrecking ball in to it.
Weird physics of the Mboards though, don't you think, S'tan? To be the victim of one's own topic.
What does the M'boards have to do with
hysterical real estate values, rampant soulless speculation, and the running to ground of a subculture. Oh yeah, this is the original 'nightclub without bricks and mortar.' Well the Whipshack can't exist without real walls. Being sanguine about someone's business being closed down in 13 days with throwaways of "this too shall pass..." phffft. Guess what. It might not. Have fun with it anyhow.
Farewell.
hysterical real estate values, rampant soulless speculation, and the running to ground of a subculture. Oh yeah, this is the original 'nightclub without bricks and mortar.' Well the Whipshack can't exist without real walls. Being sanguine about someone's business being closed down in 13 days with throwaways of "this too shall pass..." phffft. Guess what. It might not. Have fun with it anyhow.
Farewell.
S'tan..I am so sorry to hear about the closing. So many years, so many memories. But you are a true survivor my dear. On to bigger and better things. Maybe it's time for that vacation you've been dreaming about. Let me know, maybe I'll go with you my love.
Oh S'tan, it's heartbreaking and surely hits home with your post. It's as if the forces of greed have not only said farewell to Charming Old New York, but "Good Riddance!"
The rotten thing is that this city has never been supportive towards any kind of small business. I would suggest, should any one find any sort of humor in this, he or she should attempt to open and operate any business in Manhattan. Be it night club or bar, shoe repair store, bodega, or even something of a more "specialized" nature, the torture is incredible. Endless City agencies, countless tickets and violations, greedy, lying landlords and much, much more. (I am sure Daddy will concur) Unless of course, you are a huge international corporation with main offices outside of New York-- then you get amazing concessions.
It's little wonder most small businesses in NYC flounder and fail within the first year.
It used to be that they were happy to have us all in sections of Manhattan that nobody else seemed to want. Now, however, they want it all!
I wonder, as everything I know and love gets torn up, and replaced by thoughtless mediocrity, just how long it will be before the wrecking ball appears outside my own front door.
The rotten thing is that this city has never been supportive towards any kind of small business. I would suggest, should any one find any sort of humor in this, he or she should attempt to open and operate any business in Manhattan. Be it night club or bar, shoe repair store, bodega, or even something of a more "specialized" nature, the torture is incredible. Endless City agencies, countless tickets and violations, greedy, lying landlords and much, much more. (I am sure Daddy will concur) Unless of course, you are a huge international corporation with main offices outside of New York-- then you get amazing concessions.
It's little wonder most small businesses in NYC flounder and fail within the first year.
It used to be that they were happy to have us all in sections of Manhattan that nobody else seemed to want. Now, however, they want it all!
I wonder, as everything I know and love gets torn up, and replaced by thoughtless mediocrity, just how long it will be before the wrecking ball appears outside my own front door.
The ironic thing is that these greedy souless "Masters of the Universe" types need your services MUCH more than anyone else. I'm sure you will agree Stan. They desperately need the vitriol that you dish out so graciously (and gracefully). How do you describe it in your books? Oh yeah, "That useful irritability".
Talk about biting the hand that spanks you!
Talk about biting the hand that spanks you!
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Alarming, to say the least, this should be happening to a person and place that would not at all seem to be an obvious target. But as Hatches makes clear, it is all but a routine in this environment. It is a kind of civic beat-down, and there is no mistakeing the violence quotient. That such a person and thier highly distinctive establishment existed at all for as long as it did is a huge slab of grace. I think of all the people whose intense needs were served, on both the client and provider sides, through the existence of the place. To my mind S'tan's irritation is a sign of how she gets inspired by these kinds of obstacles.
Score One for the Mall Culture!!!
What could this mean for New York City?
On CNN.com today...
HIGH COURT OKs PERSONAL PROPERTY SEIZURES
Majority: Local officials know how best to help cities
WASHINGTON (AP) -- -- The Supreme Court on Thursday ruled that local governments may seize people's homes and businesses -- even against their will -- for private economic development.
It was a decision fraught with huge implications for a country with many areas, particularly the rapidly growing urban and suburban areas, facing countervailing pressures of development and property ownership rights.
The 5-4 ruling represented a defeat for some Connecticut residents whose homes are slated for destruction to make room for an office complex. They argued that cities have no right to take their land except for projects with a clear public use, such as roads or schools, or to revitalize blighted areas.
As a result, cities have wide power to bulldoze residences for projects such as shopping malls and hotel complexes to generate tax revenue.
Local officials, not federal judges, know best in deciding whether a development project will benefit the community, justices said.
"The city has carefully formulated an economic development that it believes will provide appreciable benefits to the community, including -- but by no means limited to -- new jobs and increased tax revenue," Justice John Paul Stevens wrote for the majority.
He was joined by Justice Anthony Kennedy, David H. Souter, Ruth Bader Ginsburg and Stephen G. Breyer.
At issue was the scope of the Fifth Amendment, which allows governments to take private property through eminent domain if the land is for "public use."
Susette Kelo and several other homeowners in a working-class neighborhood in New London, Connecticut, filed suit after city officials announced plans to raze their homes for a riverfront hotel, health club and offices.
New London officials countered that the private development plans served a public purpose of boosting economic growth that outweighed the homeowners' property rights, even if the area wasn't blighted.
Justice Sandra Day O'Connor, who has been a key swing vote on many cases before the court, issued a stinging dissent. She argued that cities should not have unlimited authority to uproot families, even if they are provided compensation, simply to accommodate wealthy developers.
The lower courts had been divided on the issue, with many allowing a taking only if it eliminates blight.
"Any property may now be taken for the benefit of another private party, but the fallout from this decision will not be random," O'Connor wrote. "The beneficiaries are likely to be those citizens with disproportionate influence and power in the political process, including large corporations and development firms."
She was joined in her opinion by Chief Justice William H. Rehnquist, as well as Justices Antonin Scalia and Clarence Thomas.
What could this mean for New York City?
On CNN.com today...
HIGH COURT OKs PERSONAL PROPERTY SEIZURES
Majority: Local officials know how best to help cities
WASHINGTON (AP) -- -- The Supreme Court on Thursday ruled that local governments may seize people's homes and businesses -- even against their will -- for private economic development.
It was a decision fraught with huge implications for a country with many areas, particularly the rapidly growing urban and suburban areas, facing countervailing pressures of development and property ownership rights.
The 5-4 ruling represented a defeat for some Connecticut residents whose homes are slated for destruction to make room for an office complex. They argued that cities have no right to take their land except for projects with a clear public use, such as roads or schools, or to revitalize blighted areas.
As a result, cities have wide power to bulldoze residences for projects such as shopping malls and hotel complexes to generate tax revenue.
Local officials, not federal judges, know best in deciding whether a development project will benefit the community, justices said.
"The city has carefully formulated an economic development that it believes will provide appreciable benefits to the community, including -- but by no means limited to -- new jobs and increased tax revenue," Justice John Paul Stevens wrote for the majority.
He was joined by Justice Anthony Kennedy, David H. Souter, Ruth Bader Ginsburg and Stephen G. Breyer.
At issue was the scope of the Fifth Amendment, which allows governments to take private property through eminent domain if the land is for "public use."
Susette Kelo and several other homeowners in a working-class neighborhood in New London, Connecticut, filed suit after city officials announced plans to raze their homes for a riverfront hotel, health club and offices.
New London officials countered that the private development plans served a public purpose of boosting economic growth that outweighed the homeowners' property rights, even if the area wasn't blighted.
Justice Sandra Day O'Connor, who has been a key swing vote on many cases before the court, issued a stinging dissent. She argued that cities should not have unlimited authority to uproot families, even if they are provided compensation, simply to accommodate wealthy developers.
The lower courts had been divided on the issue, with many allowing a taking only if it eliminates blight.
"Any property may now be taken for the benefit of another private party, but the fallout from this decision will not be random," O'Connor wrote. "The beneficiaries are likely to be those citizens with disproportionate influence and power in the political process, including large corporations and development firms."
She was joined in her opinion by Chief Justice William H. Rehnquist, as well as Justices Antonin Scalia and Clarence Thomas.
uck...I'm feeling a bit nausious.
To jump back to The Whipshack for a second...
Stan,
Speaking of "Masters Of The Universe" and "Whipshack Legends"...
I walked out the door yesterday and bumped right into "Brown Paul". He's in town for a couple of days (which I'm sure you know). He looks great. High as a kite with a hot boy on his arm, just walking down the street taking in the beautiful day. God bless him.
We lamented The Whipshack closing but agreed that you will always prevail.
Stan,
Speaking of "Masters Of The Universe" and "Whipshack Legends"...
I walked out the door yesterday and bumped right into "Brown Paul". He's in town for a couple of days (which I'm sure you know). He looks great. High as a kite with a hot boy on his arm, just walking down the street taking in the beautiful day. God bless him.
We lamented The Whipshack closing but agreed that you will always prevail.
Brown Paul is on his way over as we speak to view Angel Stern Deconstructed.
He has retired to New Mexico, and is trying to get me to join him in the Deep Styx. I may yet.
But there are so few slaves there.
He has retired to New Mexico, and is trying to get me to join him in the Deep Styx. I may yet.
But there are so few slaves there.
Thanks for posting that story about the Supreme Court ruling, Stan. When I read it in the NYTimes it really shocked the hell out of me, mostly because it was the moderate/liberals who ruled in favor of the real estate developers and the arch-conservative fiends (Scalia, Thomas, etc) who ruled for the small businesses and homeowners. You would think it would be the other way around. I understand the need for urban renewal in economically depressed towns, but it must be heartbreaking for those families that have operated small businesses in the disputed location for generations to be uprooted and bulldozed over. That story was the shock of the week for me.
That said, it may not mean anything for NYC. The ruling clearly stated that local municipalities have the right to make further restrictions as they see fit, and I believe NY state is one of the few in the nation that aleady bares a lot of rights on its books for homeowners. I could be wrong on that.
That said, it may not mean anything for NYC. The ruling clearly stated that local municipalities have the right to make further restrictions as they see fit, and I believe NY state is one of the few in the nation that aleady bares a lot of rights on its books for homeowners. I could be wrong on that.
You're right Lex, NY State does limit "Eminent Domain" a great deal. However, we are also the state and municipality that invented the insidious concept of the "Authority"-- something that is beholden to nothing-- practically no limit or law or democratic process-- but itself. These include locally, The Port Authority, the Triboro Bridge and Tunnel Authority and many many others.
Who thought up this concept and created these monsters? Why Robert Moses of course. And the worst thing about them is that they are, by necessity, self-perpetuating.
Who thought up this concept and created these monsters? Why Robert Moses of course. And the worst thing about them is that they are, by necessity, self-perpetuating.
What I find very fascinating in this, is the use of the word "blight." It comes up several times as a defining term, for whether steps can and should be taken. I ask you, how can anyone's HOME be considered "BLIGHT?" Just because they're poor. Where is the humanity and compassion in all this .
I think the homeowner should have eminent domain over
all other claimants.. Otherwise we are back to fleeing the country.
I'm so bo-or-ored with the U-S-A.
I think the homeowner should have eminent domain over
all other claimants.. Otherwise we are back to fleeing the country.
I'm so bo-or-ored with the U-S-A.
For example, was the old Variety Theatre
BLIGHT???
Yes, acc. to NYU!!!
BLIGHT???
Yes, acc. to NYU!!!
In NYC real estate is the wealthy peoples' heroin. Nothing can stand in the way of their getting it. So some peoples' bliss is their blight.
The last Flea Market on Sixth Avenue is gone. I had heard they were putting another stupid high rise on the spot, but I thought it was going to be
next year. Yesterday I walked by and an entirely new chain link fence was up, one without any doorways in it.
I just walked across that lot the other night, as I usually do, enjoying one of the few block-long vistas in NYC without obstruction.
I lost that on the West side of the street, now it's gone on the eastside.
What can you do about a place that becomes more and more inhuman as the years go by.
I suppose that is what the city is about... a cluster of concretions, and the poor bioplasms trying to overcome it. Art being "how" they once overcame it. I really am feeling too crushed to try anymore.
Finally an article about the destruction of NYC's economic base for artists:
The New York Times
July 31, 2005
Bohemian Rhapsody
By RICHARD FLORIDA and ELIZABETH CURRID
NEW YORKERS already know that their city is a global center for everything from finance and business to arts and culture. But even the most self-assured resident would likely be astounded by the extraordinary magnitude of the greater New York regional economy.
The metropolitan area alone is the 16th-largest economy in the world; its annual economic output of nearly $500 billion puts it ahead of Russia and nearly on par with Brazil. The region as a whole - including Nassau and Suffolk Counties, Westchester and parts of New Jersey and Connecticut - has an output of nearly $900 billion annually, making it the seventh-largest economy in the world, behind China and bigger than Canada or India.
For the better part of the last century, New York has been the location of choice for the talented, innovative and entrepreneurial members of what we call a global "creative class" - those who use their minds and creativity in their daily working lives. With almost three million creative-sector employees, about a third of its work force, the metropolitan region boasts the greatest number of creative-class workers in the world.
New York City's economy is increasingly powered by these creative industries. Today, it has an even greater competitive advantage in fields like fashion design, art and music than it does in financial services and banking. The city's economy is 16 times more concentrated in fashion designers, five times more concentrated in fine artists and four to six times more concentrated in musical occupations, film and video editors and producers and directors compared with all other United States metropolitan economies as a whole. And as economists know, without a healthy New York City, the suburbs of Westchester and Long Island would falter too.
But recent trends indicate that New York's position at the forefront of the creative economy may face considerable challenge. For starters, foreign cities are stepping up their competition for talented and creative people. Cities like London, Shanghai and Sydney are increasing their arts and cultural spending, research and development activities and university investments. Famous as New York may be for its arts and culture, it ranks 11th in the world, behind Amsterdam and London, on our global Bohemian Index, which measures the proportion of artistically creative people, like working musicians, dancers, writers and designers in a city.
New York is also hampered by a series of misguided national policies. Today, tough visa requirements and an increasingly anti-immigration culture are stifling the flow of foreign talent. Columbia University, for example, saw an almost 12 percent decline in international engineering students and a nearly 18 percent decline in international medical students from 2003 to 2004.
Creative people want - and need - to be around other creative people, and that's something the density of New York has long been able to provide. But this clustering has been weakened by the lack of affordable housing in Manhattan and parts of Brooklyn, fueling emigration by creative people. Some of these people are moving to the outer boroughs, New Jersey, Long Island and Westchester. But many are moving out altogether, attracted by burgeoning creative climates and less expensive housing in other parts of the country.
The New York region, which has long paid more in taxes than it receives in federal spending, stands to lose a great deal as the Bush administration slashes the existing meager support for urban programs like work-force development, low-income housing, community development grants and support for arts and culture. These and other federal cutbacks hurt New York's ability to generate affordable housing, upgrade its subway and support its arts and creative environment, putting further pressure on the city and region.
Mayor Michael R. Bloomberg does little to help things, having spent considerable energy and political capital on big-ticket items like the failed West Side stadium plan and efforts to attract the 2012 Olympics. The city would be far better served with smaller scale neighborhood and community-level efforts to ensure affordable housing and work space for artists, immigrants and entrepreneurs, to upgrade the city's open space in combination with more public art and to improve transportation.
To remain a stronghold in the global creative economy, New York must strive to rejuvenate the creative dynamism that has always been at the heart of its artistic, cultural and economic success. By strengthening the practices that have brought it fortune and growth, New York will continue to be a truly great center of the global creative economy.
next year. Yesterday I walked by and an entirely new chain link fence was up, one without any doorways in it.
I just walked across that lot the other night, as I usually do, enjoying one of the few block-long vistas in NYC without obstruction.
I lost that on the West side of the street, now it's gone on the eastside.
What can you do about a place that becomes more and more inhuman as the years go by.
I suppose that is what the city is about... a cluster of concretions, and the poor bioplasms trying to overcome it. Art being "how" they once overcame it. I really am feeling too crushed to try anymore.
Finally an article about the destruction of NYC's economic base for artists:
The New York Times
July 31, 2005
Bohemian Rhapsody
By RICHARD FLORIDA and ELIZABETH CURRID
NEW YORKERS already know that their city is a global center for everything from finance and business to arts and culture. But even the most self-assured resident would likely be astounded by the extraordinary magnitude of the greater New York regional economy.
The metropolitan area alone is the 16th-largest economy in the world; its annual economic output of nearly $500 billion puts it ahead of Russia and nearly on par with Brazil. The region as a whole - including Nassau and Suffolk Counties, Westchester and parts of New Jersey and Connecticut - has an output of nearly $900 billion annually, making it the seventh-largest economy in the world, behind China and bigger than Canada or India.
For the better part of the last century, New York has been the location of choice for the talented, innovative and entrepreneurial members of what we call a global "creative class" - those who use their minds and creativity in their daily working lives. With almost three million creative-sector employees, about a third of its work force, the metropolitan region boasts the greatest number of creative-class workers in the world.
New York City's economy is increasingly powered by these creative industries. Today, it has an even greater competitive advantage in fields like fashion design, art and music than it does in financial services and banking. The city's economy is 16 times more concentrated in fashion designers, five times more concentrated in fine artists and four to six times more concentrated in musical occupations, film and video editors and producers and directors compared with all other United States metropolitan economies as a whole. And as economists know, without a healthy New York City, the suburbs of Westchester and Long Island would falter too.
But recent trends indicate that New York's position at the forefront of the creative economy may face considerable challenge. For starters, foreign cities are stepping up their competition for talented and creative people. Cities like London, Shanghai and Sydney are increasing their arts and cultural spending, research and development activities and university investments. Famous as New York may be for its arts and culture, it ranks 11th in the world, behind Amsterdam and London, on our global Bohemian Index, which measures the proportion of artistically creative people, like working musicians, dancers, writers and designers in a city.
New York is also hampered by a series of misguided national policies. Today, tough visa requirements and an increasingly anti-immigration culture are stifling the flow of foreign talent. Columbia University, for example, saw an almost 12 percent decline in international engineering students and a nearly 18 percent decline in international medical students from 2003 to 2004.
Creative people want - and need - to be around other creative people, and that's something the density of New York has long been able to provide. But this clustering has been weakened by the lack of affordable housing in Manhattan and parts of Brooklyn, fueling emigration by creative people. Some of these people are moving to the outer boroughs, New Jersey, Long Island and Westchester. But many are moving out altogether, attracted by burgeoning creative climates and less expensive housing in other parts of the country.
The New York region, which has long paid more in taxes than it receives in federal spending, stands to lose a great deal as the Bush administration slashes the existing meager support for urban programs like work-force development, low-income housing, community development grants and support for arts and culture. These and other federal cutbacks hurt New York's ability to generate affordable housing, upgrade its subway and support its arts and creative environment, putting further pressure on the city and region.
Mayor Michael R. Bloomberg does little to help things, having spent considerable energy and political capital on big-ticket items like the failed West Side stadium plan and efforts to attract the 2012 Olympics. The city would be far better served with smaller scale neighborhood and community-level efforts to ensure affordable housing and work space for artists, immigrants and entrepreneurs, to upgrade the city's open space in combination with more public art and to improve transportation.
To remain a stronghold in the global creative economy, New York must strive to rejuvenate the creative dynamism that has always been at the heart of its artistic, cultural and economic success. By strengthening the practices that have brought it fortune and growth, New York will continue to be a truly great center of the global creative economy.
Very interesting article Stanley. Of course it's nothing new to anyone on the Motherboards but it's great that someone else is saying it too.
And yes, the famous 6th Avenue Flea Market is gone. It has moved to 39th and (I think) 11th Avenue. Hell's Kitchen. But don't despair, they are going to replace it with something we REALLY need... An ugly 30 story high rise with $4,000.00 a month studio apartments. They will be 300 square foot "luxury apartments" with 7 foot ceilings, cardboard walls and vinyl doors. I'm sure there will be a health club as well as a doorman.
And by the way, the famous "Flower District" on 28th Street and 6th Avenue (down the street) is moving as well. They can no longer afford the rents of the newly residential neighborhood.
And yes, the famous 6th Avenue Flea Market is gone. It has moved to 39th and (I think) 11th Avenue. Hell's Kitchen. But don't despair, they are going to replace it with something we REALLY need... An ugly 30 story high rise with $4,000.00 a month studio apartments. They will be 300 square foot "luxury apartments" with 7 foot ceilings, cardboard walls and vinyl doors. I'm sure there will be a health club as well as a doorman.
And by the way, the famous "Flower District" on 28th Street and 6th Avenue (down the street) is moving as well. They can no longer afford the rents of the newly residential neighborhood.
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I've just been reading all of the entries here, and I find some comfort in the laments herein, knowing that at least we all see what is happening. It's true that it's happening all over but that doesn't make New York any less heartbreaking. It seems to me that the tearing down of everything that is old, small, full of character, and the replacing of them all with those big ugly bland expensive buildings has reached a frenzy. Yesterday I took a big walk and saw it everywhere, on 18th and 8th a lovely Federal era building had just been demolished--it was always very well kept and beautiful, always had flower pots on the sills, not at all what we used to think of as something that would be knocked down--but ah, it was only two stories tall. Then 3rd Ave and about 10th Street, another pit, another one on Orchard Street, and then of course the poor Bowery, and poor Liz Christy garden and all its lush beauty sitting there so vulnerable. And I didn't even realize until looking at what Daddy wrote, about the old Variety. This makes me cry, actually, and I remember the old ruin of Luchow's and the feeling that I would have as I looked at it. Beautiful old creatures, those places. I remember sometime in the 80s, standing on Bleecker Street with my friend Liza Stelle and she said, Look, isn't that Grampa? I very rarely approach a famous person, but Grampa Munster was standing there and I just couldn't believe how tall he was and I went and said, "Grampa!" I ended up standing there talking with him for a long time on the sidewalk. Grampa gave me a little picture of himself and he told me all about his beginnings in Vaudeville, over at the old Variety Theater. Then soon after he opened a restaurant there on Bleecker Street. Remember Grampa's? Well, it's gone now, along with the whole building that it occupied, and so is the old Variety.
I feel ill at the thought of Terrence pushed out. We are going to go over and interview her for Goodie this week. Which reminds me. Daddy, we MUST finish the one with you and the Empress. Can we make a date? Now is more important than ever.
I feel ill at the thought of Terrence pushed out. We are going to go over and interview her for Goodie this week. Which reminds me. Daddy, we MUST finish the one with you and the Empress. Can we make a date? Now is more important than ever.
All these old NYC landmarks are all being moved out or pushed out by these ugly, monstrosities called luxury condominuims! Who can afford living here anymore? The new yuppies and rich Europeans? AGH! 
These NYC tour opperators will have less and less to show to the tourists as these new residential buildings will take over and Manhattan will be nothing more than a grey city with no personality.
It was always nice to know that you could always go down to Fulton to buy fresh fish; the flower district to buy exotic plants; Greenwich Village for music and art...alas.....
These NYC tour opperators will have less and less to show to the tourists as these new residential buildings will take over and Manhattan will be nothing more than a grey city with no personality.
It was always nice to know that you could always go down to Fulton to buy fresh fish; the flower district to buy exotic plants; Greenwich Village for music and art...alas.....
The same thing is happening here in Ptown. Out with the old and in with the new..just like the way the youth of today treat the legends of yesterday. What happened to us? We can blame it all on Bush economics and his insidius political behaviors or we can take a look at ourselves and ask how we helped to contribute to this climate. The blame game will only take us so far, it will really come down to how we as individuals deal with our world and how we vote or spend our money. Ask everytime you spend a dollar who is the profit going to and consider if you really need the item you are buying. Take time to write letters to your congressman explaining how you want your tax dollars to be spent. Use every opportunity to use your voice. The time for lethargy and inaction is over. If we want change we must begin to act on it now. we must begin to be more considerate and caring towards others and not be afraid to stand up for what you believe is right. There is a tital wave of disater heading our way and we MUST begin to look for oppertunities to redirect our focus. The party is over and now it's time for some belt tightening and some truth telling and some damn hard work. Look for the doorway to freedom and realize that it involves our own behavior and action and a commitment to something more long lasting and important than a night out of boozing and gossiping. Personal values will be the road to freedom in the coming years and only our heart can lead us.
THE FLOWER DISTRICT IS LEAVING?
Every day I was over there getting roses , 2 dozen for $15. at the end of the day.
ALL THESE POOR PEOPLE.... the little flea marketers, the rose sellers, the plant people...
WHERE ARE THEY GOING?
I feel sick.
Bobby, at this moment it seems nothing can drown out the hideous drumbeat of the Money Grubbers.
To refuse to live for money or profit seems the only possible philosophy.
Every day I was over there getting roses , 2 dozen for $15. at the end of the day.
ALL THESE POOR PEOPLE.... the little flea marketers, the rose sellers, the plant people...
WHERE ARE THEY GOING?
I feel sick.
Bobby, at this moment it seems nothing can drown out the hideous drumbeat of the Money Grubbers.
To refuse to live for money or profit seems the only possible philosophy.
I walked up and down West 28th today and looked at all the little old buildings. Most are two and three storeys, and in pretty bad condition from years of neglect, just being used for the flower-merchants. You see water damage everywhere..
Most are very cute, sweet old places with the old paint still on them, funny rickety old wood windows...the wrecker's ball trembling above their heads.
I had looked at space on West 27th facing North, and the views from those lofts are stupendous
because of all those little old buildings on 28th. Raw lofts there were $4500. @ 2500 sq ft. but you have to put in at least $20K to make them livable. Private bathrooms are impossible too because the water seems usually to be in the center of the floor, around the elevators.
I asked several of the flower workers if they were moving. No-one seemed to know what I was talking about. Then one guy said, "Maybe the Bronx, we don't know." The BRONX? What local decorator, restauranteur in Chelsea is going to be trekking up there... I got 4 dozen roses at the 3 PM price of $5. a dozen. I mean having all these plants and flowers in midtown was such a joy. Living in the city you need reminders of the seasons like that!
Well I'm leaving this neighborhood anyhow... what do I care. Well I care!
Along with the dominatrix, the photographer, the little coffee shop owner goes alot of beautiful history.
We forget that NY has never respected its own history. There's an amazing book called "Lost
New York" I have seen and need to get again... you think the stuff they're tearing down NOW is sad.
Some of the 28th Street buildings are apparently in the throes of a clean-up and renovation. I imagine prices are going to be high.
On West 28th in the middle of the block, on the south side there's a tall strange building that looks amazing... it has fifteen foot ceilings, tall windows, it looks like it may have been a convention hall! I saw workers on the second floor, and went up and snooped around. The place was a wreck with a scarlet Police Closure sign on the door. I imagined it may have been some secret gambling den until recently...
I got the name of the owner, but unfortunately the water is all at one end. We can't have a public bathroom, now can we.
I have to get over this idea I'm going to find some great old wreck for cheap that I can fix up. I'm living in the past. It's over.
Most are very cute, sweet old places with the old paint still on them, funny rickety old wood windows...the wrecker's ball trembling above their heads.
I had looked at space on West 27th facing North, and the views from those lofts are stupendous
because of all those little old buildings on 28th. Raw lofts there were $4500. @ 2500 sq ft. but you have to put in at least $20K to make them livable. Private bathrooms are impossible too because the water seems usually to be in the center of the floor, around the elevators.
I asked several of the flower workers if they were moving. No-one seemed to know what I was talking about. Then one guy said, "Maybe the Bronx, we don't know." The BRONX? What local decorator, restauranteur in Chelsea is going to be trekking up there... I got 4 dozen roses at the 3 PM price of $5. a dozen. I mean having all these plants and flowers in midtown was such a joy. Living in the city you need reminders of the seasons like that!
Well I'm leaving this neighborhood anyhow... what do I care. Well I care!
Along with the dominatrix, the photographer, the little coffee shop owner goes alot of beautiful history.
We forget that NY has never respected its own history. There's an amazing book called "Lost
New York" I have seen and need to get again... you think the stuff they're tearing down NOW is sad.
Some of the 28th Street buildings are apparently in the throes of a clean-up and renovation. I imagine prices are going to be high.
On West 28th in the middle of the block, on the south side there's a tall strange building that looks amazing... it has fifteen foot ceilings, tall windows, it looks like it may have been a convention hall! I saw workers on the second floor, and went up and snooped around. The place was a wreck with a scarlet Police Closure sign on the door. I imagined it may have been some secret gambling den until recently...
I got the name of the owner, but unfortunately the water is all at one end. We can't have a public bathroom, now can we.
I have to get over this idea I'm going to find some great old wreck for cheap that I can fix up. I'm living in the past. It's over.
I've also been walking a lot, and suddenly so many little buildings that I've walked past a thousand times leap out at me looking very much threatened, over on 6th Avenue and everywhere else too. The old ones, even the really run down buildings, always have such personality and they were all very well-built. It's as if at a certain point they didn't know how to build anything truly ugly, and now the opposite seems true. Then there are the things that were never meant to be beautiful or ugly, but just utilitarian, like the place on 9th Avenue and 29th Street where taxis can have their tires fixed, where one tree is growing in the yard with the piles of tires and hand-painted signs, and across the street a little deli called the Terminal Deli is full of old geezers and there are two mounted deer heads on the wall like in Montana. It's such an honest place, no bullshit, regular old coffee and a nice counterman with a pastrami accent. I can hardly believe it's still there now, because those kind of places are going too, I know because I used to go to my local community board meetings which I stopped going to because my health was suffering from sitting there listening. That's where I heard really creepy, creepy, arrogant and shifty city officials (younger than me at this point) talking about getting rid of all those unattractive auto shops and ugly little nothing businesses to beautify that part of "West Chelsea." One actually said they would get rid of them so it wouldn't be so difficult to walk over to the Chelsea Piers. I personally have never had any difficulty getting over to the river because of any of the car repair joints. Over on West 25th Street near 11th, there is a collection of really beautiful old industrial buildings with a couple of nice old brick smokestacks, and in the middle of it, a big dozed out square with a sign bragging about the huge tall completely tasteless, Hongcouver style highrise condo building that will be opening in the Spring, and they're calling it an Arts Community because there will be gallery space in it.
Last month I saw Vancouver after not seeing it for about 20 years and it was gone. What used to be a nice, kind of funky interesting city is now covered in hundreds and hundreds of indentical, ugly, tall glass buildings. That seems to be what people want New York to become and there isn't anything that can be done to stop it it seems. At this point there seems to be no shame attached to the most gross displays of greed and disgregard for laws or culture or anything so it would not surprise me if they try to untie whatever knot keeps Central Park public and cover that with ugly buildings too.
Last month I saw Vancouver after not seeing it for about 20 years and it was gone. What used to be a nice, kind of funky interesting city is now covered in hundreds and hundreds of indentical, ugly, tall glass buildings. That seems to be what people want New York to become and there isn't anything that can be done to stop it it seems. At this point there seems to be no shame attached to the most gross displays of greed and disgregard for laws or culture or anything so it would not surprise me if they try to untie whatever knot keeps Central Park public and cover that with ugly buildings too.
Funny ... years ago an ex-boyfriend of mine and I used to walk about the dilapidated East Village and speculate that if only the city would fix up all the burned out buildings and build on the vacant lots, then NYC would never have a housing crisis again. It was 1992 and we lived on 7th between B & C when it was still crack dealer row and there were more abandoned tenaments than you could count. Now that every square inch of the nabe IS being developed, the housing problem still persists .... only now it's about affordability rather than lack of space.
But despite it all, I still love this town. I love the energy and the drive. Two weeks ago I saw Robert Wilson's latest production at Lincoln Center, something that was only going to run for a limited engagement right here in the Big Apple and nowhere else. It was one of the most devastatingly gorgeous specatacles I've ever seen in my life, and only something this metropolis could deliver to my lap. Tacky condos or no, I'm still addicted. For better or for worse.
But despite it all, I still love this town. I love the energy and the drive. Two weeks ago I saw Robert Wilson's latest production at Lincoln Center, something that was only going to run for a limited engagement right here in the Big Apple and nowhere else. It was one of the most devastatingly gorgeous specatacles I've ever seen in my life, and only something this metropolis could deliver to my lap. Tacky condos or no, I'm still addicted. For better or for worse.
I'll hang on until they squeeze me out to be sure. There are indeed lots of good things yet. Just being able to run up to the Met anytime I feel like it, for example. As for 7th between B and C, I once lived on that very block in 1987. What I remember well is that now infamous laundromat where the drug dealers sat. I used to do laundry in it. My windows looked south and out my window I could look down on a big shanty town in a lot on 6th Street and there was always a lot going on down there, and on one of the rooftops nearby, a little man had a whole farm going with chickens and a goat. And just in case one didn't remember what century it was, there were the twin towers sticking up as a reminder.
I was thinking about all the change that happens in big sweeps, and how much some people must have suffered as the little old farms disappeared downtown. On Greenwich Street there are two very very old farmhouses. I think they are somehow protected, let's hope so. What they must have seen out those old melted windows.
I was thinking about all the change that happens in big sweeps, and how much some people must have suffered as the little old farms disappeared downtown. On Greenwich Street there are two very very old farmhouses. I think they are somehow protected, let's hope so. What they must have seen out those old melted windows.
Hey, the Fulton Fish market is going to Hunts Point so who knows where the flower people on 28th will end up. As for the article S'tan posted about the culture and arts sector of NYC, it is still something that is only looked at on the macro scale by Puff Puff Bloomberg and city government. They will give all sorts of financial and code considerations to things like the Met and the Guggy and Lincoln Center but are totally blind as to where the artists come from who end up having their work presented at those institutions -they overlook the hundreds of small community centers, private dance companies and collective spaces that are the real dwindling engine of culture here. Look what Rudiani did to Charas/El Bohio, which once was the only anchor saving a whole neighborhood around E.9th Street. The city commissioned a study a few years back that found culture was second only to Wall Street in generating revenue in NYC. Culture generates over 11 billion a year for this town. On a national scale compare what the federal government does for culture to what the UK does. The UK spends about 15 dollars per person on art and culture. In the US that figure is actually, would you believe, 15 CENTS per person. The UK, three years ago, had a budget of over 600 million dollars to spend on arts and culture. During that time the US spent 115 million. In the UK there was a category of grants to artists called experimentation and risk that had over 2 million dollars to give away. In the US then and now there exists zilch for any grants to individual artists at all. So as much as local and national government always bat their mouths about all the economic importance of culture to the NYC area that culture is treated much like a whore by them. What government initiatives are currently in practice to promote the well being and viability of a culture sector that would provide incentives and breaks for individual artists or even collectives to want to live and work in NYC? There are no such initiatives.
Culture is people creating. Culture is not money changing hands for event tickets, credit card receipts for paintings in galleries, or fat museum director salaries. The change needed is one of priorities. The benefit isn't sales tax revenues or risiduals from tourists to hotels and restaurants, cabs and souvenier shops. The benefit is a more healthy society.
Old NYC used to be a town densely populated by glorious creative freaks. Now those creative people are like S'tan's whipshack. Due to be demolished on a moment's notice. The day may be comming when the wealthy know-nothings paying $4,000 for a 300 square foot luxury dog kennel will all be staring at themselves in the clubs and galleries, not quite figuring out why their pet artists are no where to be seen. There won't be any styles, fashion tips, buzzwords, or cultural trends to steal here anymore. Vogue will be minning St. Louis. That is the way things seem to be going. And the society will be the creator of its own dessicated culture.
If social and economic conditions crush certain foundational elements of culture out of NYC it will reflect the love/hate, deity/whore outlook on creative people this society has been fighting itself over since it began.
Culture is people creating. Culture is not money changing hands for event tickets, credit card receipts for paintings in galleries, or fat museum director salaries. The change needed is one of priorities. The benefit isn't sales tax revenues or risiduals from tourists to hotels and restaurants, cabs and souvenier shops. The benefit is a more healthy society.
Old NYC used to be a town densely populated by glorious creative freaks. Now those creative people are like S'tan's whipshack. Due to be demolished on a moment's notice. The day may be comming when the wealthy know-nothings paying $4,000 for a 300 square foot luxury dog kennel will all be staring at themselves in the clubs and galleries, not quite figuring out why their pet artists are no where to be seen. There won't be any styles, fashion tips, buzzwords, or cultural trends to steal here anymore. Vogue will be minning St. Louis. That is the way things seem to be going. And the society will be the creator of its own dessicated culture.
If social and economic conditions crush certain foundational elements of culture out of NYC it will reflect the love/hate, deity/whore outlook on creative people this society has been fighting itself over since it began.
You have stated it perfectly seven. It is wonderful yes that these big institutions exist, the Met, the Museums, etc. But being a consumer of art and high end artistic product is NOT the same issue as BEING an artist who has to LIVE in a place without being a slave.
Who will be working for these great institutions, creating product for the future? Who will have the time, energy, leisure and freedom to WORK towards that level of artistic relevance and acceptance? I don't care HOW many trust funds you have, you have to be bloodie HUNGRY to work like that. And NYC is starving the artists.
You don't wake up one morning as an accomplished painter and have a 57th Street gallery. You have to live, sweat it, work in a specific place, and go to the parties and meet the people and engage with your peers. So where are they now.
Vogue magazine can indeeed go mine St. Louis or Santa Fe or anywhere but Manhattan and not Vancouver either it seems. NEW WORLD ORDER! We're all clones in a box.
I rented one of my rooms here to Jessica and Modera who had posted about the space. I just can't take the thought of poor artists dying on the vine. Maybe I am simply extending the torture.
Today's wonderful discovery: there's the new "Rule of Thumb" for realtors. Multiply a rent by 45, and that's how much you should be making to get your new Manhattan apartment. In other words, if I want an apartment in NYC for $2,000., multiply that by 45, and I should show an income of $90K. If I can't, I will be asked for a "guarantor." Now if you somehow find an apartment for $1,200. you still would have to show an income of $47,000. I mean where are these people getting off.
So the big cities are driving the artists out? We can go somewhere else.
Put the word out! Stay away from the big cities, stay in your small hometown and create your culture there, unimpeded by real estate gouging and soulless jobs you must do to pay the rents in this town. May your only impediment be writer's block from too much quiet, or having to drive into town to buy more paint.
Of course if your hometown is NYC... and it pretty much IS my home town! you just have to get used to saying good-bye. It's not going to get better. The real estate bubble is not going to burst.
Well anyhow I'm going to go look at that cool building on 28th Street on Monday. I'll try until the last minute. Que sera sera.
Who will be working for these great institutions, creating product for the future? Who will have the time, energy, leisure and freedom to WORK towards that level of artistic relevance and acceptance? I don't care HOW many trust funds you have, you have to be bloodie HUNGRY to work like that. And NYC is starving the artists.
You don't wake up one morning as an accomplished painter and have a 57th Street gallery. You have to live, sweat it, work in a specific place, and go to the parties and meet the people and engage with your peers. So where are they now.
Vogue magazine can indeeed go mine St. Louis or Santa Fe or anywhere but Manhattan and not Vancouver either it seems. NEW WORLD ORDER! We're all clones in a box.
I rented one of my rooms here to Jessica and Modera who had posted about the space. I just can't take the thought of poor artists dying on the vine. Maybe I am simply extending the torture.
Today's wonderful discovery: there's the new "Rule of Thumb" for realtors. Multiply a rent by 45, and that's how much you should be making to get your new Manhattan apartment. In other words, if I want an apartment in NYC for $2,000., multiply that by 45, and I should show an income of $90K. If I can't, I will be asked for a "guarantor." Now if you somehow find an apartment for $1,200. you still would have to show an income of $47,000. I mean where are these people getting off.
So the big cities are driving the artists out? We can go somewhere else.
Put the word out! Stay away from the big cities, stay in your small hometown and create your culture there, unimpeded by real estate gouging and soulless jobs you must do to pay the rents in this town. May your only impediment be writer's block from too much quiet, or having to drive into town to buy more paint.
Of course if your hometown is NYC... and it pretty much IS my home town! you just have to get used to saying good-bye. It's not going to get better. The real estate bubble is not going to burst.
Well anyhow I'm going to go look at that cool building on 28th Street on Monday. I'll try until the last minute. Que sera sera.
And speaking of clones-in-a-box: at Allen & Delancey-- a new Starbucks?
Gawker Reports
I know, Daddy, I know. But you will never get me inside one.
Gawker Reports
I know, Daddy, I know. But you will never get me inside one.
> They will give all sorts of financial and code
> considerations to things like the Met and the
> Guggy and Lincoln Center but are totally blind
> as to where the artists come from who end up
> having their work presented at those
> institutions
Culture and Art, enemies.
> considerations to things like the Met and the
> Guggy and Lincoln Center but are totally blind
> as to where the artists come from who end up
> having their work presented at those
> institutions
Culture and Art, enemies.
The latest permutation of this ever-fascinating topic -
Voila! East Village as a Vegas theme shopping mall - tragique!
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/08/14/nyregion/thecity/14vega.html
quote:On the corner of Tropicana Avenue and Paradise Road, on a vacant patch of desert near the airport, will rise East Village, a retail-office-entertainment complex inspired by Manhattan's strollable streets. The $250 million project is tentatively scheduled to open in 2007.
Playing fast and loose with geographical borders, the development will contain a scale model of the Washington Square arch, a meatpacking district and a diamond district, which, as New Yorkers know, is a good 30 blocks north of the East Village. "It's not an exact replica," Mr. Advent explained, adding that the complex was more an homage to great neighborhoods (which explains the part of the development based on Pike Place Market in Seattle). The name, he said, stems from the location, which is one mile east of the Las Vegas strip, and from the fact that "it really is like a little village."
Voila! East Village as a Vegas theme shopping mall - tragique!
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/08/14/nyregion/thecity/14vega.html
HOORAY! Now every single person on these boards should email the developer and apply for a job doing nothing but being who we are, just hanging out on the 'streets' of the 'East Village' indulging our penchant for outsiderness, extravagant behavior and being able to slip through the cracks (read in to that whatever you like). They are going to need some authentic local color for LasEV.
I hope they leave loads of garbage in the streets like my block and have rats!
BTW that whole noise problem in the press recently where Sutra on First got 'hit' the most just proved that the squeaky wheel gets the oil... and that 311 really does work....not that I agree about just being a cunt of a neighbour and causing trouble.... but when there is loads of garbage etc etc on my block... especially since most of the time its my scumbag landlords issue...and he does nowt about it I am starting to call and call and call... it seems that each time he doesn't clean up they will get a fine... so bravo 311... it does work if u have the energy to call and use it!
BTW that whole noise problem in the press recently where Sutra on First got 'hit' the most just proved that the squeaky wheel gets the oil... and that 311 really does work....not that I agree about just being a cunt of a neighbour and causing trouble.... but when there is loads of garbage etc etc on my block... especially since most of the time its my scumbag landlords issue...and he does nowt about it I am starting to call and call and call... it seems that each time he doesn't clean up they will get a fine... so bravo 311... it does work if u have the energy to call and use it!
I called 311 almost daily for a month and then off and on again when the particular problem appeared again.....excessive noise from a building construction site directly across the street from me, which has been ongoing for over four years now! Which tells you how bad the contractor is, a seven storey building taking four years to put up?! I even overheard a city building code inspector the other week on the street telling the contractor, "You know there are no currently manufactured windows that will fit those window holes you've made." I had to choke back the laughs. But as for 311, it took them a few weeks but they banished a gigantic fork lift that used to send my hole building into shivers at about 6:45AM each morning. Totally, obviously, a blatant violation of noise standards, not to mention construction sites are alowed to make noise but not over 40 decibels and not before 7:00AM. The not nice thing though is that the city will let this kind of thing go on unless you complain and complain and complain about it. I found one thing that helped though. The first time the contractor was violating the noise statute was when they had a generator as big as a bus in the foundation to pump out standing rain water, the generator was so loud even the workers would stand half way down the block to avoid the deafening sound. I confronted the site manager in the muddy foundation at about 7:30AM and told him if he didn't take that generator out I would get everyone on the whole block to call the city and get him fined. He scoffed at that. So I printed up big fliers in spanish and english with the 311 number and instructions on just how to lodge a complaint about the generator. I posted the fliers around the whole block of 3rd and 2nd Streets and for good effect stuck one on the front door of the contractor's office which happened to be on the corner. The generator was not turned on the next day and the following day it was gone, never to appear again. Make no mistake, contractors and the like will totally take advantage of you and everyone else unless you stick it in their face.
East Village as a theme park in Las Vegas, well that says it all. Why doesn't Hilly go there? If he doesn't, some actor playing him will anyhow!
From the NY Times today: Mirroring my struggle all summer... you think you have a decently large enough limit on rent, and the real estate mavens just laugh at you. THE REAL TERRORISTS IN NEW YORK CITY ARE THE REAL ESTATE AGENTS!!!!
I like how she breaks down the types ---
The New York Times
August 21, 2005
Seeking the Holy Grail
By ALEXANDRA BANDON
MY low point came the day I stood on Charles Street berating a real estate agent I had just met two minutes before. "This is not a town house!" I snarled, looking up at a six-story yellow brick apartment building. "Why did you call this a town house?"
The agent, a sweet-faced young blonde in large sunglasses, gamely took my abuse in front of two colleagues. Her defense was weak. "I didn't lie," she said. "I said it was on a town house block."
"No, you said it was a town house," I practically screamed. "I came all the way down here on my lunch hour to look at a town house floor-through. This is a tenement!"
I was insane. I knew it. But not because my face was beet red and my eyes were bulging - or because I kept saying the words "town house" - but because when the agent asked me if this meant I didn't want to go inside and see the apartment, I said: "No. Of course I'll look at it."
Desperation. I had sunk so low that I was willing to trust anyone who claimed to have the perfect property. I was halfway through a five-week hunt for the holy grail of West Village apartments: a one-bedroom in a town house with a separate kitchen, west of Seventh Avenue between 10th and 13th Streets, for $2,600 or less. (Yeah, my friends rolled their eyes, too, and tended to say I had better start acquainting myself with Brooklyn.)
[NOT THAT BROOKYLN HAS ANYTHING CHEAP THESE DAYS!!]
For several weeks, I had tried the no-broker route, sending out mass e-mail messages and calling all my neighborhood contacts.
But this is New York. Landlords don't go begging for renters. They get a broker to do it for them, then let the renter pay for the privilege - anywhere from one month's rent to 15 percent of a year. Or they raise the rent on a "no fee" apartment to make up for what they paid the broker. The reality is that apartments in Manhattan rarely move without the aid of a professional, and even when a landlord lists a place "by owner," good luck finding the ad before a broker co-opts it.
{PRECISELY!!!]
After two weeks with no success, I succumbed to the siren song of the broker. And let me tell you, I dealt with a lot of them. Dozens, in fact. Some I spoke to only on the phone. Some I met in person. Many were not actually brokers, but mere agents. (Both are licensed, but brokers have logged more hours and have taken a second licensing exam while agents must work under the supervision of a broker.)
Soon it became clear. Brokers and agents are all alike, really. Or can at least be neatly compartmentalized into personality types. So if you're getting ready to search for your perfect apartment, here's a cheat sheet to help you deal with New York's real estate rental professionals - from the good, to the bad, to the downright nasty.
The Bully
Most rental listings don't go on the market until a month before they're available, which means renters can't seriously begin searching until then. So a lot of agents and brokers capitalize on the panic that comes from that 30-day countdown to homelessness. They hit on your worst fears by sneering, "You'll never find anything in that price range" or "Apartments like that just don't come on the market that often."
Bullies are actually easy to spot because they answer questions with questions. "What exactly are you looking for?" they say when you ask about a listing. Gee, I think, I'm looking for something kind of like this ad I called you about. "When do you have to move?" they ask. Oh, I don't know, I'm in no rush.
I encountered a Bully when I answered an ad for a "$2,690/2br - HOT, HOT, HOT WEST VILLAGE STEAL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!" (Caps lock and exclamation points are very important to the Bully.) "Have you been looking only at no-fee apartments?" he scolded. "That's why you're having a bad experience. No fee apartments are awful."
"But, um, this apartment is no fee," I said.
"That one's rented," he said. "I have a better one on 10th Street. It has a fee."
Ah, the classic bait and switch. Call about one property, and the Bully will tell you either it doesn't fit your criteria or it has already been rented. Then you'll hear about another, better, place, which just happens to require a fee.
Take it from me: the moment a broker answers your question with another question, just hang up. If he's not focused on the ad he listed, he probably doesn't really have that property.
The Confidante
There are times, I have to admit, when an agent's rap was so good that I shut off my scam detector. That's what had happened with the woman on Charles Street. We had talked on the phone and she had listened. Listened - and told me I shouldn't look at the apartment I'd called her about because it wasn't right for someone of my maturity and sophistication. Instead she had the perfect place, on one of my favorite blocks. Yeah, girlfriend!
Then while we waited to meet up with the listing broker, we exchanged gripes about clueless agents. "I got into this business," she said, "because I was dealing with so many brokers who didn't know what they were talking about." My new best friend!
The Confidante uses empathy to gain trust. "Oh, you're going through a breakup? How horrible! You've only dealt with sneaky, stupid brokers? I hear you!" This woman was good, but she made one big mistake: she lied. Turns out she couldn't tell a town house from a doghouse.
In the end, the apartment was actually decent. But it wasn't good enough to justify the fee, which couldn't be negotiated down from 15 percent because it was a "co-broke," a deal shared between a listing broker and an agent who brings in a client. And I wasn't about to lay out that kind of money for a girlfriend who had betrayed me.
The Tourist
A Tourist is an agent who's just getting his or her feet wet in a neighborhood and dabbles in its geography, architecture, history and culture. But he hasn't quite learned his way around, which can be frustrating for a local like me. More than one broker I worked with didn't even know how to get to the addresses they were showing me.
[I DEALT with one "agent" who didn't know what "MIDTOWN" meant. She thought West 28th Street was the West VIllage.]
Matthew Mediatore from K&O Realty was a Tourist when I met him. Our first encounter ended without my seeing the property because Matthew had gotten the cross streets wrong and we'd missed the appointment. The next time I saw him, he tried to impress me about a place - which was, mind you, three blocks from where I lived - by telling me "Gwyneth Paltrow lives right over there." Yes, I know. And Liv Tyler lives there, and Sarah Jessica Parker lives there, and Hilary Swank is just up the street. Anything else you want to tell me about my neighborhood?
Over the next few weeks, however, Matthew shed his Tourist status. He made sure he showed me only town houses, not brownstones. (While a native New Yorker means a house when he says "brownstone," brokers use that term for any building sporting real brownstone on the facade. Many of them are actually tenements.)
He also didn't patronize me. Instead he was professional and honest, probably because he had owned a personal training business for 10 years before becoming an agent. Agents with life and work experience interact better with clients, because they already understand the value of working hard at good customer service.
The Scavenger
If the Tourist is a hard worker, the Scavenger is the laziest. The Scavenger trolls newspapers and Web listings, finds an ad for a great place and then relists the place as his or her own. Often, the same apartment will show up five, 10 times in a row, all with different brokers' contact numbers.
[THIS IS WHAT YOU'LL FIND A HUNDERD TIMES if you use Craig's List!!]
It's not their fault, really. Because of the strong sales market, there's a glut of brokers and agents. In fact, New York's Department of State, which administers the real estate licensing exams, recently ended its walk-in test-taking policy in several locations, including New York City, because the lines to get in were snaking around the block.
I met my first Scavenger when I answered a "no fee" ad on the Craigslist Web site for an apartment down the block from me. It was listed for $3,175, but I took a chance that the landlord might come down on the rent for the right tenant.
I never actually met that agent because he sent a co-worker in his place. When we sat down with the landlord, I jumped right in. "Look, I have to be honest - I love it, but it's more than I can afford," I said. "But I hope you'll consider lowering the rent if I promise to take care of ..."
She cut me off. "The price is firm," she said. She turned to the agent and asked him, "What about you? Do you work?"
Puzzled, he answered that he was a broker with a neighborhood agency.
"I don't know who that is," she said. Then she looked at me and smirked. "You could have just looked in The Village Voice," she said.
Suddenly it all made sense. The guy who had put the ad on Craigslist didn't even know this woman; he had just seen her classified ad in The Voice and relisted it. That's when she and I exchanged glances. "Who did you think was going to pay you?" we both asked the agent.
He had no idea, because his colleague had set him up. Needless to say, the landlord never came down on the price, and the next day I picked up The Village Voice. There was the ad, a tiny three-liner, listing the apartment for $2,995 - $180 less than the ad on Craigslist. Perhaps the agent's plan had been to pretend he was getting the landlord to come down on the rent in exchange for the renter's paying the fee.
But listing the property in the first place was unethical, according to the code of ethics of the Real Estate Board of New York, an industry trade association. The code states that "without the prior knowledge or consent of the owner," no member shall "offer, or cause to be offered, such property for sale or lease."
From then on, I looked in the paper myself.
The Veteran
It was a newspaper ad that caught my eye: "G.Vill 1BR $2,150; Private 20x22 backyard, Bright EIK, Full Sep Bth. Grt Nabe. Avail IMM."
West Village, eat-in kitchen and private backyard at that price? Too good to be true. I called the number and spoke to Michael Marino, the sole proprietor of Marino Real Estate in TriBeCa, and found out the place was several blocks south on Hudson - still in the Village, but below my geographic cutoff line. I decided to see it anyway.
The apartment was great. It had a nonworking fireplace, a good-sized bedroom, closets galore, a new bathroom, and it really did have a backyard, complete with flowering roses. And Michael knew just how to handle me. Laid-back, soft-spoken, he didn't push me with the hard sell. He just showed me the place and we chatted for a while. After 22 years in the business, he knew the deal would either happen or it wouldn't.
His ad, it turns out, had appeared only in the paper, not online. Michael said he's old-fashioned and thinks people who are looking for an apartment will check the paper first, so it's not worth paying extra to put the ad online. Once I started reading the classifieds in print, I realized that a lot of Veterans followed this logic, and that I'd been missing quite a few listings by searching only online.
Mary A. Vetri, a senior vice president at William B. May on Hudson Street, is herself a 17-year veteran. "Rentals are my bread and butter," she says. To her, even the smallest studio rental could add a client to the Rolodex who someday will bring back a multimillion-dollar sale. For that reason, the Veteran rarely lies or even goes for the hard sell, because he or she wants to establish a lasting relationship.
Case in point: when I asked Michael if the apartment was in a town house, he said: "Oh, I don't know. Maybe it could have been a town house at one point." Turned out it was, built in 1842. But Michael was probably the only broker I dealt with who didn't jump at the chance to tell me that.
The Genuinely Nice Person
Though I knew I was interested in the Hudson Street apartment, I actually put Michael off for as long as I could while I made sure there wasn't anything better in my immediate neighborhood. In a last-minute surge of phone calls to real estate companies, I came across a true broker rarity: the Genuinely Nice Person.
Tim Taylor works for Citi Habitats, which doesn't always have the best reputation among apartment hunters. But Tim was attentive the first moment I called him. I took a chance and was honest, letting him know that I had an apartment lined up but wanted to keep searching for another week.
Telling Tim I had a place already was a risk - he could have just stopped calling. But the Genuinely Nice Person doesn't work that way. Tim told me about every listing he found that I might have liked, even going so far as to break a broker's taboo and give me building addresses so I could save us both time with a preliminary walk-by.
To be honest, I don't know how they make any money. The Genuinely Nice Person seems to spend an inordinate amount of time searching listings on behalf of clients who may or may not ever pay him. Tim and I met only once, at a really nice two-bedroom on 12th Street, but he spent a good week working on my behalf, including over a holiday weekend. When I rejected the apartment because it required too much money up front, he just said: "I'm so sorry. I didn't know. They should have put the two-months' security in their listing. I'm really very sorry about that."
A broker apologizing? Unheard of. What a nice guy.
In the end, I signed the lease on the Hudson Street apartment and Michael and I negotiated the fee: more than a month's rent, but less than 15 percent. I think I got a pretty good deal."
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/08/21/realestate/21cov.html
From the NY Times today: Mirroring my struggle all summer... you think you have a decently large enough limit on rent, and the real estate mavens just laugh at you. THE REAL TERRORISTS IN NEW YORK CITY ARE THE REAL ESTATE AGENTS!!!!
I like how she breaks down the types ---
The New York Times
August 21, 2005
Seeking the Holy Grail
By ALEXANDRA BANDON
MY low point came the day I stood on Charles Street berating a real estate agent I had just met two minutes before. "This is not a town house!" I snarled, looking up at a six-story yellow brick apartment building. "Why did you call this a town house?"
The agent, a sweet-faced young blonde in large sunglasses, gamely took my abuse in front of two colleagues. Her defense was weak. "I didn't lie," she said. "I said it was on a town house block."
"No, you said it was a town house," I practically screamed. "I came all the way down here on my lunch hour to look at a town house floor-through. This is a tenement!"
I was insane. I knew it. But not because my face was beet red and my eyes were bulging - or because I kept saying the words "town house" - but because when the agent asked me if this meant I didn't want to go inside and see the apartment, I said: "No. Of course I'll look at it."
Desperation. I had sunk so low that I was willing to trust anyone who claimed to have the perfect property. I was halfway through a five-week hunt for the holy grail of West Village apartments: a one-bedroom in a town house with a separate kitchen, west of Seventh Avenue between 10th and 13th Streets, for $2,600 or less. (Yeah, my friends rolled their eyes, too, and tended to say I had better start acquainting myself with Brooklyn.)
[NOT THAT BROOKYLN HAS ANYTHING CHEAP THESE DAYS!!]
For several weeks, I had tried the no-broker route, sending out mass e-mail messages and calling all my neighborhood contacts.
But this is New York. Landlords don't go begging for renters. They get a broker to do it for them, then let the renter pay for the privilege - anywhere from one month's rent to 15 percent of a year. Or they raise the rent on a "no fee" apartment to make up for what they paid the broker. The reality is that apartments in Manhattan rarely move without the aid of a professional, and even when a landlord lists a place "by owner," good luck finding the ad before a broker co-opts it.
{PRECISELY!!!]
After two weeks with no success, I succumbed to the siren song of the broker. And let me tell you, I dealt with a lot of them. Dozens, in fact. Some I spoke to only on the phone. Some I met in person. Many were not actually brokers, but mere agents. (Both are licensed, but brokers have logged more hours and have taken a second licensing exam while agents must work under the supervision of a broker.)
Soon it became clear. Brokers and agents are all alike, really. Or can at least be neatly compartmentalized into personality types. So if you're getting ready to search for your perfect apartment, here's a cheat sheet to help you deal with New York's real estate rental professionals - from the good, to the bad, to the downright nasty.
The Bully
Most rental listings don't go on the market until a month before they're available, which means renters can't seriously begin searching until then. So a lot of agents and brokers capitalize on the panic that comes from that 30-day countdown to homelessness. They hit on your worst fears by sneering, "You'll never find anything in that price range" or "Apartments like that just don't come on the market that often."
Bullies are actually easy to spot because they answer questions with questions. "What exactly are you looking for?" they say when you ask about a listing. Gee, I think, I'm looking for something kind of like this ad I called you about. "When do you have to move?" they ask. Oh, I don't know, I'm in no rush.
I encountered a Bully when I answered an ad for a "$2,690/2br - HOT, HOT, HOT WEST VILLAGE STEAL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!" (Caps lock and exclamation points are very important to the Bully.) "Have you been looking only at no-fee apartments?" he scolded. "That's why you're having a bad experience. No fee apartments are awful."
"But, um, this apartment is no fee," I said.
"That one's rented," he said. "I have a better one on 10th Street. It has a fee."
Ah, the classic bait and switch. Call about one property, and the Bully will tell you either it doesn't fit your criteria or it has already been rented. Then you'll hear about another, better, place, which just happens to require a fee.
Take it from me: the moment a broker answers your question with another question, just hang up. If he's not focused on the ad he listed, he probably doesn't really have that property.
The Confidante
There are times, I have to admit, when an agent's rap was so good that I shut off my scam detector. That's what had happened with the woman on Charles Street. We had talked on the phone and she had listened. Listened - and told me I shouldn't look at the apartment I'd called her about because it wasn't right for someone of my maturity and sophistication. Instead she had the perfect place, on one of my favorite blocks. Yeah, girlfriend!
Then while we waited to meet up with the listing broker, we exchanged gripes about clueless agents. "I got into this business," she said, "because I was dealing with so many brokers who didn't know what they were talking about." My new best friend!
The Confidante uses empathy to gain trust. "Oh, you're going through a breakup? How horrible! You've only dealt with sneaky, stupid brokers? I hear you!" This woman was good, but she made one big mistake: she lied. Turns out she couldn't tell a town house from a doghouse.
In the end, the apartment was actually decent. But it wasn't good enough to justify the fee, which couldn't be negotiated down from 15 percent because it was a "co-broke," a deal shared between a listing broker and an agent who brings in a client. And I wasn't about to lay out that kind of money for a girlfriend who had betrayed me.
The Tourist
A Tourist is an agent who's just getting his or her feet wet in a neighborhood and dabbles in its geography, architecture, history and culture. But he hasn't quite learned his way around, which can be frustrating for a local like me. More than one broker I worked with didn't even know how to get to the addresses they were showing me.
[I DEALT with one "agent" who didn't know what "MIDTOWN" meant. She thought West 28th Street was the West VIllage.]
Matthew Mediatore from K&O Realty was a Tourist when I met him. Our first encounter ended without my seeing the property because Matthew had gotten the cross streets wrong and we'd missed the appointment. The next time I saw him, he tried to impress me about a place - which was, mind you, three blocks from where I lived - by telling me "Gwyneth Paltrow lives right over there." Yes, I know. And Liv Tyler lives there, and Sarah Jessica Parker lives there, and Hilary Swank is just up the street. Anything else you want to tell me about my neighborhood?
Over the next few weeks, however, Matthew shed his Tourist status. He made sure he showed me only town houses, not brownstones. (While a native New Yorker means a house when he says "brownstone," brokers use that term for any building sporting real brownstone on the facade. Many of them are actually tenements.)
He also didn't patronize me. Instead he was professional and honest, probably because he had owned a personal training business for 10 years before becoming an agent. Agents with life and work experience interact better with clients, because they already understand the value of working hard at good customer service.
The Scavenger
If the Tourist is a hard worker, the Scavenger is the laziest. The Scavenger trolls newspapers and Web listings, finds an ad for a great place and then relists the place as his or her own. Often, the same apartment will show up five, 10 times in a row, all with different brokers' contact numbers.
[THIS IS WHAT YOU'LL FIND A HUNDERD TIMES if you use Craig's List!!]
It's not their fault, really. Because of the strong sales market, there's a glut of brokers and agents. In fact, New York's Department of State, which administers the real estate licensing exams, recently ended its walk-in test-taking policy in several locations, including New York City, because the lines to get in were snaking around the block.
I met my first Scavenger when I answered a "no fee" ad on the Craigslist Web site for an apartment down the block from me. It was listed for $3,175, but I took a chance that the landlord might come down on the rent for the right tenant.
I never actually met that agent because he sent a co-worker in his place. When we sat down with the landlord, I jumped right in. "Look, I have to be honest - I love it, but it's more than I can afford," I said. "But I hope you'll consider lowering the rent if I promise to take care of ..."
She cut me off. "The price is firm," she said. She turned to the agent and asked him, "What about you? Do you work?"
Puzzled, he answered that he was a broker with a neighborhood agency.
"I don't know who that is," she said. Then she looked at me and smirked. "You could have just looked in The Village Voice," she said.
Suddenly it all made sense. The guy who had put the ad on Craigslist didn't even know this woman; he had just seen her classified ad in The Voice and relisted it. That's when she and I exchanged glances. "Who did you think was going to pay you?" we both asked the agent.
He had no idea, because his colleague had set him up. Needless to say, the landlord never came down on the price, and the next day I picked up The Village Voice. There was the ad, a tiny three-liner, listing the apartment for $2,995 - $180 less than the ad on Craigslist. Perhaps the agent's plan had been to pretend he was getting the landlord to come down on the rent in exchange for the renter's paying the fee.
But listing the property in the first place was unethical, according to the code of ethics of the Real Estate Board of New York, an industry trade association. The code states that "without the prior knowledge or consent of the owner," no member shall "offer, or cause to be offered, such property for sale or lease."
From then on, I looked in the paper myself.
The Veteran
It was a newspaper ad that caught my eye: "G.Vill 1BR $2,150; Private 20x22 backyard, Bright EIK, Full Sep Bth. Grt Nabe. Avail IMM."
West Village, eat-in kitchen and private backyard at that price? Too good to be true. I called the number and spoke to Michael Marino, the sole proprietor of Marino Real Estate in TriBeCa, and found out the place was several blocks south on Hudson - still in the Village, but below my geographic cutoff line. I decided to see it anyway.
The apartment was great. It had a nonworking fireplace, a good-sized bedroom, closets galore, a new bathroom, and it really did have a backyard, complete with flowering roses. And Michael knew just how to handle me. Laid-back, soft-spoken, he didn't push me with the hard sell. He just showed me the place and we chatted for a while. After 22 years in the business, he knew the deal would either happen or it wouldn't.
His ad, it turns out, had appeared only in the paper, not online. Michael said he's old-fashioned and thinks people who are looking for an apartment will check the paper first, so it's not worth paying extra to put the ad online. Once I started reading the classifieds in print, I realized that a lot of Veterans followed this logic, and that I'd been missing quite a few listings by searching only online.
Mary A. Vetri, a senior vice president at William B. May on Hudson Street, is herself a 17-year veteran. "Rentals are my bread and butter," she says. To her, even the smallest studio rental could add a client to the Rolodex who someday will bring back a multimillion-dollar sale. For that reason, the Veteran rarely lies or even goes for the hard sell, because he or she wants to establish a lasting relationship.
Case in point: when I asked Michael if the apartment was in a town house, he said: "Oh, I don't know. Maybe it could have been a town house at one point." Turned out it was, built in 1842. But Michael was probably the only broker I dealt with who didn't jump at the chance to tell me that.
The Genuinely Nice Person
Though I knew I was interested in the Hudson Street apartment, I actually put Michael off for as long as I could while I made sure there wasn't anything better in my immediate neighborhood. In a last-minute surge of phone calls to real estate companies, I came across a true broker rarity: the Genuinely Nice Person.
Tim Taylor works for Citi Habitats, which doesn't always have the best reputation among apartment hunters. But Tim was attentive the first moment I called him. I took a chance and was honest, letting him know that I had an apartment lined up but wanted to keep searching for another week.
Telling Tim I had a place already was a risk - he could have just stopped calling. But the Genuinely Nice Person doesn't work that way. Tim told me about every listing he found that I might have liked, even going so far as to break a broker's taboo and give me building addresses so I could save us both time with a preliminary walk-by.
To be honest, I don't know how they make any money. The Genuinely Nice Person seems to spend an inordinate amount of time searching listings on behalf of clients who may or may not ever pay him. Tim and I met only once, at a really nice two-bedroom on 12th Street, but he spent a good week working on my behalf, including over a holiday weekend. When I rejected the apartment because it required too much money up front, he just said: "I'm so sorry. I didn't know. They should have put the two-months' security in their listing. I'm really very sorry about that."
A broker apologizing? Unheard of. What a nice guy.
In the end, I signed the lease on the Hudson Street apartment and Michael and I negotiated the fee: more than a month's rent, but less than 15 percent. I think I got a pretty good deal."
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/08/21/realestate/21cov.html
Seven I LOVE it that you were printing flyers!! lurve U! Ha! brilliant!
I think Daddy mentioned this before but I read today that the Roxy will close next year. Not really surprised but it's the only real big club left with some history to it. I havn't been there in ages, but it was one of the first clubs I went to when I moved to New York in 1992. Lee Chappel's Locomotion parties on Saturday nights were sooo much fun back in the early 1990's , I don't care for the all male thing on Saturday nights now(totally boring and very dull) but I really like the space and the chandalier room and of course roller skating! Soon there will be nothing left!
Where will all those chomping-at-the-bit muscle queens go on Saturday night? Probably Avalon (ex-Limelight), if John Blair has anything to say about it. It was never my scene but I had some good times there over the years, including roller skating, just like in junior high. Closing the Roxy feels kind of like closing Macy's ... I don't shop there that often but it's an institution I don't want to go away.
I'm going to close out this topic.
The Roxy stuff is moving to "Is The Roxy closing?"
Let's go to Farewell Charming Old New York: Part 3.
The Roxy stuff is moving to "Is The Roxy closing?"
Let's go to Farewell Charming Old New York: Part 3.