For discussion of all things Michael Alig or Party Monster related. Continued from Part 1
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You probably are the only person other than myself who liked the movie, but I'm a criminologist and have a high tolerance for hideous behavior. That would include that of the directors and producers of this sludge, who might have made a film that commented responsibly not only upon the trivial drug-addled cretin who was Michael Alig, but the context in which he blossomed and prospered, to wit, NYC nightlife. Even therein he was not what you would call a popular guy. Just because a murder is dolled up in glitter and interesting music, hons, it's still death and destruction, and it's NOT fiction.
More informative and interesting is the documentary that came out before Michael Alig was even incarcerated, which might also be called "Party Monster." (Someone please correct me on this.) In that, you may thrill to the ultimate *shock value* of seeing M.A. himself being interviewed about Angel, and he's rolling his eyes and giggling and confessing on camera... no-one took it seriously then. No - someone's confessing to murder, and his society just think he's trying to show off.
I don't think it's being NUMB that is the issue, Bobby. I think it is a total skew on what is considered right and wrong. The issue is that there is no rudder ... possibly even no conscience at all.
More informative and interesting is the documentary that came out before Michael Alig was even incarcerated, which might also be called "Party Monster." (Someone please correct me on this.) In that, you may thrill to the ultimate *shock value* of seeing M.A. himself being interviewed about Angel, and he's rolling his eyes and giggling and confessing on camera... no-one took it seriously then. No - someone's confessing to murder, and his society just think he's trying to show off.
I don't think it's being NUMB that is the issue, Bobby. I think it is a total skew on what is considered right and wrong. The issue is that there is no rudder ... possibly even no conscience at all.
ZAZ and SAT: You are true rulers. Your perspective is refreshing and enlightened and it proves that there is hope for the youth of America.
Yes, many of us knew both Michael and Angel and many of us watched the horror unfold at the time. It always puzzles me that that particular generation somehow missed the very point that there was a murder involved. It makes you wonder if we've all been sandpapered raw to the point where we just don't feel anything anymore. It might very well be time to start sensitizing ourselves again so that we are able to feel something real and not just focus on fashion and music and drugs and sex. Life has so much more to offer. Not that there is anything wrong with those forementioned things. I have enjoyed all of them to excess but somehow my heart is still open to compassion and sympathy and even after 53 years I am still in touch with what's really valuable and important in life. The rest is just icing on the cake.
Yes, many of us knew both Michael and Angel and many of us watched the horror unfold at the time. It always puzzles me that that particular generation somehow missed the very point that there was a murder involved. It makes you wonder if we've all been sandpapered raw to the point where we just don't feel anything anymore. It might very well be time to start sensitizing ourselves again so that we are able to feel something real and not just focus on fashion and music and drugs and sex. Life has so much more to offer. Not that there is anything wrong with those forementioned things. I have enjoyed all of them to excess but somehow my heart is still open to compassion and sympathy and even after 53 years I am still in touch with what's really valuable and important in life. The rest is just icing on the cake.
Bobby, *blushing* that means a lot coming from you.
Missy, Chi Chi started this topic when Michael Wilkinson contacted her asking if anyone in her network had costumes they wanted to loan to the movie. So the topic actually pre-dates the feature film production by a couple months, so the topic has never been really well defined.
Hatches, I didn't read that description. JEEEZUS WTF????????
Stan, we agree with you. The directors should stick with documentaries. We've noticed them in credits for all sorts of shows. They are reponsible for the "Show Dog Moms and Dads" show on Bravo which is fucking hysterical. They've also done some Sex shows for HBO that are funny too.
XXXOOO
Satori
Missy, Chi Chi started this topic when Michael Wilkinson contacted her asking if anyone in her network had costumes they wanted to loan to the movie. So the topic actually pre-dates the feature film production by a couple months, so the topic has never been really well defined.
Hatches, I didn't read that description. JEEEZUS WTF????????
Stan, we agree with you. The directors should stick with documentaries. We've noticed them in credits for all sorts of shows. They are reponsible for the "Show Dog Moms and Dads" show on Bravo which is fucking hysterical. They've also done some Sex shows for HBO that are funny too.
XXXOOO
Satori
Hey guys I would like to welcome everyone who is interested in finding out more about Michael Alig, Club Kid night life, and anything about club kid days during the hey day of Limelight,Club USA, Tunnel,etc to check out:
www.groups.yahoo.com/group/michaelaligsupport
www.groups.yahoo.com/group/michaelaligsupport
Let's see...what is there to learn about Michael Alig? That he was a drugged out self centered pedophile with no morals and a potential to corrupt young innocent people if he thought it would somehow boost his place in his own egotistical mind. He not only belongs in prison but should stay there until he's as old and ugly
as the people he loved to make fun of. Good riddance to bad rubbish.
as the people he loved to make fun of. Good riddance to bad rubbish.
I would say we should just kill this thread, except it has a lot educational value.
Zazoo & I get lots of emails from people wanting more information about Michael because we participated in the feature film (rented out parts of costumes/shoes and were extras)and we pop up a lot on searches.
These are ALMOST ALWAYS kids under the age of 20 just discovering ways to express themselves outside of the mainstream alternative circles. (i.e. "Hot Topic" goths)
I've had a 15 year old girl from Louisville, KY email to say that her parents are sending her to therapy because she's bisexual, and is in with her school's alternative crowd. She identifies with the story of being picked on in a small town, and being able to escape to NYC and become whatever she wants. Only one example, but the plot is always the same.
I always patiently explain that there are a ton of other sources of inspiration for this kind of expression, people who made/make even the most jaded take notice such as The Warhol Factory members (esp. Jackie, Holly and Candy) Divine, The Cockettes, Steve Strange, Boy George, Nina Hagen, Leigh Bowery/Trojan, Klaus Nomi, Joey Arias, The Legendary Children of the Balls... people who took what was actually the status quo and turned it on it's head or warped it in such a way that people had to create a new category for it. (The list above is not free from drug adictions, and other self destructive issues, but as far as I've heard none of them killed their friends.)
We also point out that dressing up to party has been around since the first group put feathers in their hair, smeared colored mud on their faces and danced around the fire to celebrate not being killed by a neighboring tribe. (Was anyone here there? I heard it was great)
One of two things happen at about a 50/50 rate #1 They disregard what we have to say out the immature need to be right, and we never hear from them again. #2 They actually go out and do the research and get back to us telling us that they can't wait to get started on their own projects.
Now that The Motherboards are open to spider searches, we have to know that more and more of these kids are going to start finding us, even though there is a lot of anger, we should at least give them the 50/50 chance to open up their eyes to the true legends.
XXXOOO
Satori
PLEASE NOTE: Anyone reading this who is not familiar with the community on The Motherboards, or did not bother to read the thread BEFORE posting, there are people on here that knew both Michael and Angel. (not us) And if you can't understand that people would be upset that you are blindly idolizing someone who killed someone they know, then you are missing a crucial thing called Empathy.
Zazoo & I get lots of emails from people wanting more information about Michael because we participated in the feature film (rented out parts of costumes/shoes and were extras)and we pop up a lot on searches.
These are ALMOST ALWAYS kids under the age of 20 just discovering ways to express themselves outside of the mainstream alternative circles. (i.e. "Hot Topic" goths)
I've had a 15 year old girl from Louisville, KY email to say that her parents are sending her to therapy because she's bisexual, and is in with her school's alternative crowd. She identifies with the story of being picked on in a small town, and being able to escape to NYC and become whatever she wants. Only one example, but the plot is always the same.
I always patiently explain that there are a ton of other sources of inspiration for this kind of expression, people who made/make even the most jaded take notice such as The Warhol Factory members (esp. Jackie, Holly and Candy) Divine, The Cockettes, Steve Strange, Boy George, Nina Hagen, Leigh Bowery/Trojan, Klaus Nomi, Joey Arias, The Legendary Children of the Balls... people who took what was actually the status quo and turned it on it's head or warped it in such a way that people had to create a new category for it. (The list above is not free from drug adictions, and other self destructive issues, but as far as I've heard none of them killed their friends.)
We also point out that dressing up to party has been around since the first group put feathers in their hair, smeared colored mud on their faces and danced around the fire to celebrate not being killed by a neighboring tribe. (Was anyone here there? I heard it was great)
One of two things happen at about a 50/50 rate #1 They disregard what we have to say out the immature need to be right, and we never hear from them again. #2 They actually go out and do the research and get back to us telling us that they can't wait to get started on their own projects.
Now that The Motherboards are open to spider searches, we have to know that more and more of these kids are going to start finding us, even though there is a lot of anger, we should at least give them the 50/50 chance to open up their eyes to the true legends.
XXXOOO
Satori
PLEASE NOTE: Anyone reading this who is not familiar with the community on The Motherboards, or did not bother to read the thread BEFORE posting, there are people on here that knew both Michael and Angel. (not us) And if you can't understand that people would be upset that you are blindly idolizing someone who killed someone they know, then you are missing a crucial thing called Empathy.
quote:S'tan wrote:
More informative and interesting is the documentary that came out before Michael Alig was even incarcerated, which might also be called "Party Monster." (Someone please correct me on this.)
Yes, you are correct. This is what you are refering to I believe; rental available at TLA on 8th St. (this is where I rented it from).
> a potential to corrupt young innocent people
I believe this is a 2 way street, the corruptor and the one letting himself being corrupted, just to put things straight.
Also, I agree, as much as Club Kids have some appeal for freedom and invention, a trip to the local museum should put them in the right place, no offense. Alig vs. Picasso? I know who's the real freak!
I believe this is a 2 way street, the corruptor and the one letting himself being corrupted, just to put things straight.
Also, I agree, as much as Club Kids have some appeal for freedom and invention, a trip to the local museum should put them in the right place, no offense. Alig vs. Picasso? I know who's the real freak!
Thanks for the link to the original "Party Monster!" I want to look at it again.
Daddy, weren't you interviewed in it?
Daddy, weren't you interviewed in it?
Probably, I'm such a media whore.
Like we couldn't tell from your icon.
I liked the movie. I think I may had heard of Michael Alig before on American Justice or something. I rented it mainly because I wanted to see the club costumes and make up. I thought it would be a little more telling about NYC club life back then.
Around 1996 the raves came to Detroit I was there in my "fat pants" (thank God I burned them) taking x and dancin'. KEOKI was huge here at the time. Even at 17 it seemed fake like we were trying to imitate something that came before us. It was fun and being from Michigan NYC is like dream valley when you're young, it's where everything cool starts and where all the action is.
Anyway, I wanted to see the movie thinking those parties were where our parties came from. I got more than I thought I was getting. First thing this movie is in the comedy section..... WHAT? Someone died, someone killed someone else because of drugs and status and it's in the comedy section? I found it both fun and heartbreaking at the same time. After I watched the movie I bought the book. I loved the book, but in the pit of my stomach feel bad for loving it, feel bad that it made me laugh at parts.
It's all sad. The worst part are these crazy insane people with the "Michael Alig support group" are you kidding? Is someone supporting Angel's family?
I still want to read more about NYC's night life. Studio 54 etc. If any one has read any good books about the subject I would appreciate suggestions. Leave sad murder books out. THANX.
I would like to see the original Party Monster to see some of you in it. I need to wait awhile though, because this movie disturbed me.
I over indulged in drugs when I was younger and now I need to take a xanax before I see or read anything about coke, x, heroin, etc..
Don't get me wrong I'm not one of those crazy your body is a temple reformists, my body just can't take anymore.
Around 1996 the raves came to Detroit I was there in my "fat pants" (thank God I burned them) taking x and dancin'. KEOKI was huge here at the time. Even at 17 it seemed fake like we were trying to imitate something that came before us. It was fun and being from Michigan NYC is like dream valley when you're young, it's where everything cool starts and where all the action is.
Anyway, I wanted to see the movie thinking those parties were where our parties came from. I got more than I thought I was getting. First thing this movie is in the comedy section..... WHAT? Someone died, someone killed someone else because of drugs and status and it's in the comedy section? I found it both fun and heartbreaking at the same time. After I watched the movie I bought the book. I loved the book, but in the pit of my stomach feel bad for loving it, feel bad that it made me laugh at parts.
It's all sad. The worst part are these crazy insane people with the "Michael Alig support group" are you kidding? Is someone supporting Angel's family?
I still want to read more about NYC's night life. Studio 54 etc. If any one has read any good books about the subject I would appreciate suggestions. Leave sad murder books out. THANX.
I would like to see the original Party Monster to see some of you in it. I need to wait awhile though, because this movie disturbed me.
I over indulged in drugs when I was younger and now I need to take a xanax before I see or read anything about coke, x, heroin, etc..
Don't get me wrong I'm not one of those crazy your body is a temple reformists, my body just can't take anymore.
I think about this subject from time to time...and I actually get alot of young wannabe Party monsters who are just mystified by the whole thing...asing me if I know Michael and such...
(Which I dont...I came along way too late, but still...)
I have a suspicion that that crew's over indulgence and darkness may have ruined the era of people expressing themselves through dressing up outrageously.(atleast for the time being).
I came to NYC and it was hard to find anyone who made much an effort besides The Mother Crew, to dress up.
Im Mad at the people who wear the costumes but really dont understand what kind of a motion, it is.
To me it is ceremonial garb...
I rememebr one of my first spiritual experiences associated with costumes was when i went to a Native American Pow wow, and saw all of the colors, and feathers and energy that was channeled through them...
Somehow I will always wish there are more people to play with who understand...
Damn that tragedy.
Atleast enough time has gone by that sparking another wild flair might be in order.
(Which I dont...I came along way too late, but still...)
I have a suspicion that that crew's over indulgence and darkness may have ruined the era of people expressing themselves through dressing up outrageously.(atleast for the time being).
I came to NYC and it was hard to find anyone who made much an effort besides The Mother Crew, to dress up.
Im Mad at the people who wear the costumes but really dont understand what kind of a motion, it is.
To me it is ceremonial garb...
I rememebr one of my first spiritual experiences associated with costumes was when i went to a Native American Pow wow, and saw all of the colors, and feathers and energy that was channeled through them...
Somehow I will always wish there are more people to play with who understand...
Damn that tragedy.
Atleast enough time has gone by that sparking another wild flair might be in order.
Michael Alig worked his ass off in the beginning. People want to dismiss that. He created a scene and people bought into it. Many blamed Warhol for the destructive lives his superstars took on. Angel was after all a drug dealer. Last I checked that isn't exactly a victimless crime. Dealers live by the sword and die by the sword everyday. Alig had backup that day, Angel didn't. Would the tune be any different if Alig had been killed?
Kitten, I just looked you up online and you seem to be somewhat worldy and intelligent. That makes it all the more shocking to me that you think it's OK to kill someone because he sold drugs.
I am constantly horrified by how easily some people are to excuse murder because the guy threw cool parties.
Michael did not create "club kids" People were dressing up and going out way before he got here. There were tons of parallel scenes happening at the same time as his. To name a few: Sussanne Bartsch parties, Lee Chappel events, Jackie 60, Pyramid. And, don't forget, he killed a man, shot him full of drano, chopped him up, and threw him in the river, and then joked about it. I guess you like George Bush too. There are tens of thousands dead because of him so he must be way cooler than Michael Alig
I realize that for many people who weren't here that your only frame of referance is that movie and that book. Mainstream media is only interested in the underground when there is a selling point like a celebrity connection or a murder. Don't be lazy and let one movie shape history for you. Find out about the real artists and innovators on the scene.
Maybe I'm wasting my breath. If you are so amoral that you think murder is cool or excusable maybe it's not worth arguing with you. It's like trying to debate a Jesus freak.
I was on MySpace this week and there was a fake Michael Alig profile up. SO many idiots are leaving messages of encouragement, wishing him good luck, hoping he gets out and throws more parties, etc. It's bad enough that they can't spot an obviously fake profile, but it's so much worse that he's their hero. I guess it's the same mentality that attracts people to cults, I dunno.
I am constantly horrified by how easily some people are to excuse murder because the guy threw cool parties.
Michael did not create "club kids" People were dressing up and going out way before he got here. There were tons of parallel scenes happening at the same time as his. To name a few: Sussanne Bartsch parties, Lee Chappel events, Jackie 60, Pyramid. And, don't forget, he killed a man, shot him full of drano, chopped him up, and threw him in the river, and then joked about it. I guess you like George Bush too. There are tens of thousands dead because of him so he must be way cooler than Michael Alig
I realize that for many people who weren't here that your only frame of referance is that movie and that book. Mainstream media is only interested in the underground when there is a selling point like a celebrity connection or a murder. Don't be lazy and let one movie shape history for you. Find out about the real artists and innovators on the scene.
Maybe I'm wasting my breath. If you are so amoral that you think murder is cool or excusable maybe it's not worth arguing with you. It's like trying to debate a Jesus freak.
I was on MySpace this week and there was a fake Michael Alig profile up. SO many idiots are leaving messages of encouragement, wishing him good luck, hoping he gets out and throws more parties, etc. It's bad enough that they can't spot an obviously fake profile, but it's so much worse that he's their hero. I guess it's the same mentality that attracts people to cults, I dunno.
Well said Missy. Don't waste your breath. It's like Michael jJackson fans or like you said Jesus freaks. They live in their own world without a clue as to the real truth.
Well said Miss Understood! I second that emotion.
Michael was - as all of us who were THERE know - was just a drop in the pond of so much going on at that time. Glorious as he was back then... still just another struggling 'artiste'.
It's obnoxious to trivialize Angel who was hardly a live by the sword kinda guy (for anyone who knew him... I remember him as a sweet, mellow guy - so MANY people were 'dealers' back then in the clubs). The vicious way Angel was killed and cut up was pure evil. Michael is no dif than any other Rikers criminal the fact that he has followers is just as bonkers as those chicks who fall for an marry serial killers.
NEXT!
Michael was - as all of us who were THERE know - was just a drop in the pond of so much going on at that time. Glorious as he was back then... still just another struggling 'artiste'.
It's obnoxious to trivialize Angel who was hardly a live by the sword kinda guy (for anyone who knew him... I remember him as a sweet, mellow guy - so MANY people were 'dealers' back then in the clubs). The vicious way Angel was killed and cut up was pure evil. Michael is no dif than any other Rikers criminal the fact that he has followers is just as bonkers as those chicks who fall for an marry serial killers.
NEXT!
I met/knew michael alig and james st. james in n.y.c. when they were organizing those great underground parties of theirs in public places like the upper west side highway one and the one at the old elevated train tracks on the lower west side an another great on in the subway station on 23 or 28 st. on the west side amongst others and also ofcourse i attended many of the wed. night disco 2ooo at the limelight theese two guys brought back a lot of the fun that was dying out in n.y.c. around that time, at least for me they brought life back to n.y.c. night life and they made my existance a lot more bearable, their parties were great, period. now waht happened with angel, who i never met, or maybe i did , but i dodn`t remember, was ofcourse a big targic mistake, maybe one of you will jump all over me for maybe not using a more sorrow sounding expression, and ofcourse we all would like to express our condolances to angels family and friends , and i would also like to add that i`m hispanic, but i`m not gonna turn this into a, "white man is the devil"-race issue because you all know there is no need for that, but one man who probably contributed alot to making those parties fun is dead and another two men who also made those parties fun are in prison for killing angel, may angel rest in peace. i hope micahel gets out soon and gets back to doing what he does best , which is trowing the most fun parties in n.y.c., because after all a man has the right to make a living in the way he chooses to do it. i hope you all dodn`t take this as me making out like the killing of a human being is not wrong and should go unpunished but alot of my friends from the old days of lower east side (1977-1991)have spent time in prison for commiting crimes due to the drug problems they faced, a couple for manslaughter, while others for robbery,theft etc... you all know what i mean, what happenned between angel and michael was because of drug a drug problem and being high on a drug(s) at the time that it happened, bad mouthing michael won`t bring angel back, and michael still has a life ahead of him, maybe we should be glad he does...
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Well put Anna Nicole and everyone else, you took the word right out of my mouth and this topic will never be a one-sided affair. None of us are pure or wise or good and some of us may not be pure evil either and some or either good or bad based on opinion alone.