Queers are the Blacks of the 1950's!!! Anti-Gay is on the RISE!!

I agree Sweetie. And the entire new younger gay generation takes it all for granted. For those of us who are old enough to remember what real life was like before Stonewall can attest to the fact that there is a seeming return to those long lost days of yesteryear when homophobia and biased behavior towards gays and lesbiens and transgendered folks was common place. I just drove from Ptown to Washington DC to a funeral last week and I stopped along the highway for gas and food and every place I stopped middle americans looked at me like I was a terrorist ( and I wasn't even in drag) But a word of advice from those long ago times when we had to travel like nuns, in pairs, in order to be safe. Carry tear gas, learn to fight and protect yourself. As the republican conservative party continues on its march toward racism, sexism and homophobia this is not the time to hide our heads in the sand and imagine that we are loved and accepted by our society. Pay close attention and remember in most cases there are only two kinds of conservative straight people: The kind that hate you to your face, and the kind that hate you behind your back.

Sweetie your tales of recent woes are alarming and disheartening to say the least. Let's face it, a big reason why people like us choose to settle on this godforsaken island is to live free of the bigotry the rest of our imperialist nation brews. It's sad to think that the conservative McCarthyist movement spread by the Bush administration has actually begun to taint our concrete haven. While I do believe the tide has impercetibly begun to turn against the Bushies at the national level, it's important to remember that for every two steps forward we get, we are pushed a step back.

I have to take issue though with the criticism of younger gay generations taking things for granted. It seems to me that the veryGOAL of the gay rights movement was and is for future gay generations to take their equality for granted. To NOT feel stigmatized because of their sexuality, to own their individualism and to fully expect without question the same dignity of treatment that every straight person gets. The day that scenario is fully realized will be a beautiful fucking day in my book and a reason to celebrate. If today's gay youth are taking things for granted, it's because progress has been made and our kids have a little more breathing room than queers of generations past had, even more than my generation that came of age in the (relatively recent) 1980s.

That said, we are certainly a long way from such a state of affairs. Learning to protect oneself is always a smart undertaking. Remaining out and proud is the single most important contribution any queer can make, both to our history and our future. Still though, it makes one's head spin. When a drag queen with big titties can't get a cab in this town, maybe it's time to pack it in for Amsterdam after all!

IMHO the youth of today have no manners or respect for the struggle of the gay generations before them. It seems to be all about their own self interests and materialism ( thanks Madonna for being such a shining example) and their youth obsessed behavior is a testiment to the shallow way that they treat any of their elders. But I doubt if that's new to our society. The value placed on money, fame and beauty overshadow any hopes for real depth. Of course this is a generalization but the basic facts remain the same. I don't even waste my time trying to talk with anyone under 25 in this day and age. And I certainly don't see any of them out marching or protesting, they are all too busy watching reality shows. Last year I went to the gay pride parade and there were 3 people in the Act-up group. A far cry from a mere decade earlier when there were 500 people in Act up. I guess they think that's all behind them now. And to even think of voting? What's that?

Thank you for starting the topic, Sweetie. I, too, agree that we all need to be safe, visible and accounted for. There comes with those of us who have lived for a certain number of years a responsibility for our individual rights and freedom to move about in this world. True, those queer kids born post-1980 have been provided a buffer from some of the obvious acts of hatred that have bludgeoned our historical paths. It has still gone on, though...rampantly.

Personally, I have two nephews growing up in suburban Georgia (one age 20, one age 13) who are quite socially liberal when it comes to their gay uncle or their mom's lesbian friend... I feel it is what I can do to set an example to them and prevent two more homophobic rednecks from being unleashed upon the world. So far, it seems to work. They're pretty stellar, compassionate kids.

As far as national sentiments are concerned, we do have to be smarter and more active. Safe space is the most basic and important place to start. The Big Cup is a good example. Sure, they were priced out by 3 Starbucks along that 8th Avenue stretch between 14th and 23rd Streets, but people miss that corny little queer gathering space. Starbucks is hardly queer-owned and identified. I do not see bulletin boards for public announcements in a fucking Starbucks. Homogenization can be as deadly as a billyclub.

Can we move this topic to Got Issues? or Versailles Room?

One one hand, this country is being inundated by images of queerdom in all its forms on TV, in films and plays and music videos. The other night in the area around Washington Square and SoHo (not particularly the "gay ghetto",) I saw dozens of same sex couples walking arm-in-arm attracting no particular notice.
On the other hand politicians and ministers rail against us, we are beaten and harrassed and murdered. Gay youth in schools have as bad a time as ever. Our desire to have our relationships legitimized by the State has been denied-- even if it we do not mask it behind the "safe" guise of "domestic partnership." Should we join our armed forces (though at this point I might wonder why) we must not only keep silent, but we will still be hunted down and persecuted.

I am very much reminded of an a fellow classmate in grammar school who hated Blacks with a passion, yet adored the music of Motown and lionized Hank Aaron. It's fine for the niggers to do "de ole minstrel show for de white Massa," after all...

But, things are changing bit by bit... the fact that my father's home helper has a partnered HIV+ gay son who is spoken about openly and casually and that my Dad, who was born during World War I, derides his own church for their homophobia, proves that things have changed a great deal. All my nephews have gay and lesbian friends. Like Mr. Joe points out, the revolution happens one person at a time.

Yes, Bobby, Act Up is currently not "in vogue." There are a variety of reasons for that-- one being the fact that the HIV crisis is perceived (wrongly) as being over. Another reason is the "collective" sort of way in which the group operated. And of course, young people are never interested in history. Unless of course they are really advanced.

I agree-- fight back! NEVER take your rights for granted. And Sweetie, your friend should get in touch with a group like AVP. No one should have to live this way. And we must not be silent about it.

I think everyone here is dead on...
(except Bobby, please don't stop talking to the kids. -I don't really believe you could do it anyway).



Maybe it's good to stand back and look at the bigger picture.

On one hand: There is Matthew Shepherd, murdered because he was gay. Same as it ever was.

On the other hand: There are shows like "Will & Grace" and "Queer Eye" that are main stream Top 10 American TV. Never thought I'd see that!



On one hand: Only a generation ago it was just about illegal for gays to congregate.

On the other hand: A million gays, lesbians, trannies and their supporters give New York the biggest (and best) parade down 5th Avenue every year.

It's (as Hatches pointed out) a lot like the Black/White issues we have.


On one hand: Hollywood does not really see Black people.

On the other hand: Only a generation ago Hattie McDaniel won an Oscar (the first for a Black actor) but still had to go to the Academy Awards through the back door.
Can you imagine telling Halle Barry, "Sorry Hon, the Red Carpet is for whites only. You have to go in though the service entrance".
Sure!



On one hand: As Sweetie said: "Face it, bars have been gay peoples living rooms for decades."

On the other hand: "Jackie 60", for example, would get about 600 to 800 people on a Tuesday night. "The Motherboards" get about a million. (I don't really know the exact number but it's a lot).
A hell of a lot more people are reading this discussion here than if we were all sitting at Dick's Bar drunk and spouting off.

I'm not trying to diminish what Sweetie has said. I don't think we should ever let our guard down but at the same time, there has been progress.

but then again...
This boy was brutally killed for being gay.

I don't think it's a question of progress but rather like a chart where the line moved on a steady upward direction for two decades and now as Sweetie indicates that line is moving on a downward direction. Maybe it's because we asked for TOO much ( like marriage and equal rights fro gay families). The public seemed to always prefer the out of site , out of mind perspective. Maybe we became too visual. And I will take back my statement about the gay youth of today if you can show me at least three who don't fit into that generalization about them all being self centered materialistic agiests
who show no respect to anyone over 25. And I would talk to them if they would give me the time of day. The last time I was in the city and went to a club, I was just literally pushed aside without as much as an excuse me by more than several youngins. Maybe I wasn't wearing enough Prada. I do have a few young friends here in PPtown but for the most part the ones that I meet won't give me as much as a hello. I always loved the youth brigade throughout my life but for some resaon it seems like these are a lost generation. But that may not be their fault. Who are their heros and role models today anyway? Madonna? Paris Hilton? Britney Spears?
What great politically correct examples.

Oh c'mon Bobby.
Do you really think the kids today are shallow, soul-less, spoiled materialistic shits?

I mean look at these typical kids.
No, REALLY look into the eyes of this guy.
He is obviously an advanced soul.

Big problem: lack of education. Kids are taught distractions, not lessons, in our schools and at home. Responsible, progressive gay and lesbian leaders are not offered to kids any more today than they were a generation ago. If a kid needs a role model, it takes some special kind of diligence to find one.

When Jim McGreevey was forced out of office, I remember watching the stories on the news, and...I refer back to my nephews...because they were genuinely pissed off; we disccussed it, and they're own adolescent dissatisfaction stemmed from witnessing a man who lied and deceived his constituents and his family because our society has, in its own way, damned him to that kind of fate to reach his political goals. These kids were angry because it seems all they get fed is one sham after another. So they changed the station and watch pro wrestling instead.

I do believe that the conservative power base of this country has successfully painted gays, lesbians, and trans people as "cultural terrorists," playing one citizen's fear against another...as if we are social ills to be "dealt with" either by Homeland Security or by vigilantism.

Kids are given their iPods, TV's, junk food, drugs or whatever to fill the physical holes in their bodies so that they do not have to think about the holes in their emotional and social development. Suddenly, when faced with homophobia and danger on the street or in school, too many are left without the tools they need to address these horrors that are still synonymous with being queer. Self esteem? What's that?

Sorry, what was the anecdote that engendered this thread... or the gist of it anyhow?

Bobby could be right about the youth of today --

http://www.truthdig.com/report/item/20060511_battle_cry_theocracy/

The "BattleCry" theocracy rallies -- anti-abortion, anti-gay, backwards-going YOUTH OF AMERICA

"BattleCry is a part of the evangelical organization 'Teen Mania.' You can learn a lot about the kind of society that 'Teen Mania' is fighting for by reading up on its "Honor Academy," a non-accredited educational institution that offers directed internships to 700 undergraduate and graduate youth each year.

"Among the academy's tenets: Homosexuality and masturbation are sins. Interns are forbidden to listen to secular music, watch R-rated movies or date; men can't use the Internet unsupervised; the length of women's skirts is regulated. The logic behind this"”that men must be protected from the sin of sexual temptation"”is what drives Islamic fundamentalists to shroud women in burkhas!


(In the above image, a Navy SEAL addresses the crowd. Nothing says ˜God's love' like an elite killing machine.)

" 'Teen Mania' and BattleCry are multimillion-dollar operations that send more than 5,000 missionaries to more than 34 countries each year. Their supporters and members are some of the most powerful and extreme religious lunatics in the country."

OK, I've got to step in here.
A lot of material has been deleted by the author (which is their right of course). However, the thread may be a little confusing now. I've cleaned it up a little but if you get confused. Don't worry, you are not going crazy.

QUOTE
_______________________________________________
Remaining out and proud is the single most important contribution any queer can make, both to our history and our future.

From Lex in the above string.
______________________________________________
I think what I get from a lot of the younger generation of gays and lesbians is that, far different from the let's say pre 1980's generation when being out and militant as well as exercizing solidarity with other social groups was part of the continuing social revolution of the '60's, today the youth have a consciousness of being the fought over and about generation that has both more open and greater opportunities socially and economically as well as having to at the same time endure a more rabid, more intensely organized and conservatively politcally villifying assault. The social environment for young gays today is more contradictory, rewards may come easier and more openly for a few but so do sanctions and the threat of real violence.

So in a way it is not surprising at all that along with the suburbanization of much of Manhattan comes some element of backward slide to the social environment that was going in the opposite direction. But I easily recall that even ten years or more ago I could not get a cab on Houston St. to stop when I wanted to go to Jackie and happened to be turned out with very little on in the way of clothes.

And lets be clear about gays represented in the media and showbiz, they aren't comprehended by the general public as being real on the sidewalk people at all but are among the supposedly very rare and exotic celebrities who are straight, all elevated and standing in the phoney spell of stardom. In a sense it is the old 'model minority' problem blacks and asians have dealt with forever.

I identify with Bobby's open dismay at the readiness with which so many young people seem ready to dismiss their elders, since it is so disappointing to not be appreciated by 'one's own'. But I think one has to nevertheless still be unconditionally open and willing to communicate with these distracted, preoccupied youths. A great deal of how they have been socialized and what they have internalized is not the result of choices they were offered but of ideas and attitudes imposed -and yes, often by their own peers.

At this point in my life I get bad attitude and public social dismissals because of my age, because I am perceived by some as being hispanic, by others as being gay, and recently someone went off on me in a bodega because to them I was a communist! (Of course, but rarely, I also meet with offers of assistance, help and affirmation in public for all the same reasons).

So it would appear to me there IS a permeating backslide in the society to some degree. But I am not all so certain it is because the majority of the population has been affected by the virulent negativity of certain political moralizing organs or because those hostile factions - a social minority themselves- have simply organized, financed, indoctrinated and lobbied their believers and cadres to a degree far greater than anytime in the past. What Act Up did for gay issues fifteen years ago is what the moralizing minority is doing for themselves now. Whatever the answer it is certain to me the society is in a hieghtened state of conflict in many areas. Of course without a doubt a vast amount of this moralizing hostility is the effect of the cheerleaders in national governement offices. And being left on the curb late at night by passing cabs is one of those litmus tests that is not easy to ignore.

YEAH! What he said.

It's all so primal, the attack-counterattack reality. As Hatches pointed out, anyone who is victimized in New York City should contact Anti-Violence Project (24-hour Bilingual Hotline is 212-714-1141). Below is some info about who they are and what they do from their web site www.avp.org.
The New York City Gay & Lesbian Anti-Violence Project was founded in 1980 in reaction to neighborhood incidents of anti-gay violence and the failure of the criminal justice system to respond.


The Project serves lesbian, gay, transgender, bisexual and HIV-positive victims of violence, and others affected by violence, by providing free and confidential services enabling them to regain their sense of control, identify and evaluate their options, and assert their rights. In particular, the Project's staff and volunteers assist survivors of hate-motivated violence (including HIV-motivated violence), domestic violence, and sexual assault, by providing therapeutic counseling and advocacy within the criminal justice system and victim support agencies, information for self-help, referrals to practicing professionals, and other sources of assistance. The Project actively seeks to serve clients from the full range of New York's diverse lesbian, gay, transgender, bisexual and HIV-positive communities.

The Project serves the larger community through efforts to educate the public about violence directed at or within our communities and to reform government policies and practices affecting lesbian, gay, transgender, bisexual, HIV-positive and other survivors of violence. By educating law enforcement and social service agency personnel and calling attention to inadequate official and professional responses, the Project works to hold law enforcement and social service agencies accountable to their obligation for impartial service. By documenting violence motivated by hate against the lesbian, gay, transgender, bisexual and HIV-positive communities, organizing community-based activism, and working with organizations serving other communities victimized by hate-motivated violence, the Project works to change public attitudes that tolerate, insulate or instigate hate-motivated violence, and to promote public policies designed to deter such violence.

AVP remained an all-volunteer organization until 1984, when the first full-time Executive Director was hired. With the addition of full-time staff, AVP was able to broaden its services to provide professional counseling to victims of violence. AVP also began providing services to the victims of crimes other than hate crimes, such as domestic violence, sexual assault and HIV-related violence. In addition, AVP began to mobilize and train larger numbers of volunteers to assist crime victims and to participate in community organizing activities to respond to acts of violence.

Today, AVP is the crime victim assistance agency for the lesbian, gay, transgender and HIV/AIDS communities in New York City. AVP provides free and confidential assistance to thousands of crime victims each year from all five boroughs of New York City. The agency maintains a 24- hour crisis intervention hotline staffed by professional counselors and trained volunteers, provides professional and peer support counseling as well as police, court and social service advocacy and conducts training programs for law enforcement, victim service providers and hospital personnel. In addition to providing direct services to victims, AVP seeks to change attitudes that tolerate or instigate hate-motivated violence through public education campaigns, by working with organizations serving other communities victimized by hate-motivated crime and by organizing the lesbian, gay, transgender and bisexual community's response to violence.

I think gay is 'packaged' for the media into stereotypes that they can enjoy. The Madonna kiss with Brittany, the cute quirkey funny will n graces, the hot chicks on L word. But thats all not real life, it's sexy packaged. I think anti gay IS on the rise as the RIGHT wing is on the rise and puritanical thoughts, laws and quasi McCarthyism is also slowly, quietly on the rise. These things happen as people are more an more apathetical - very very few kids are political - especially in American. Very few seem angry about anything - i remember MY YOUTH which was filled with teen groups of the young socialists, the rock against racism concerts and the Glad to Be Gay anthems. But the youth now are fed on consumerism and believe that the dollar is the answer to their prayers. It is so not about any activism at all. And this goes for so many issues, the war, police injustice, government influence, race, immigration... etc etc - and of course queer issues - Don't you agree?
Again, it sort of reminds me of the days of Germanys fascism ...the rise of family values, the rise of people being promised this booming fruitful materialism, but the slow quiet persecution of the great "unwashed" (the jews, gypsys, queers etc)... and of course most people didn't bother, didn't care... as it didn't DIRECTLY affect them. I know this is an extreem comparrison but i think all what Sweetie, Lex etc are saying is part and parcel of a very right wing environment.... i think we HAVE to just educate the kids not to be so apathetical and to be aware of others and their lifestyles and exceptance and understanding. I sort of try my best to push this into my kid
"Human beings are all members of one body.
They are created from the same essence.
When one member is in pain,
The others cannot rest.
If you do not care about the pain of others,
You do not deserve to be called a human being."
A Quote from Persian Poet Saadi Shirazi

watching the politicians and religiously incorrect rush around trying to change all the laws is laughable. making churches over into political parties, it's an art form that gays and lesbians have this ability to make silly people spend fortunes on all these silly laws that will not stand for another generation.

and yes slavery was spread in the same way homophobia is spreading, church by church, town by town. for it was religion that sanctioned and inforced slavery america. religion that segregated itself early and forced america to bend to the will of these religiously incorrect leaders.

imagine what it took to get everyone in america to admit to slavery, the universal laws that had to be created, the pattern of thoughts that had to be unified. the punishments that had to be eeked out to creat and maintain slavery. imagine the laws against mixed race marriages that have been written into the laws in america, yet children can be forced to this day to marry adult men, and nothing is done about it.

so watch as homophobia solidifies. watch as people get caught in the illogic of it all. watch as these same people are ridiculed in twenty or thirty years as george washington is vilified for not giving up his slaves when he could have lived comfortably without the crueltyt of slavery. as the bible even supported slavery.

so be patient and be very visable, it irrates the hell of the religiously incorrect.

in love,

merlin

Wanted to post this earlier but ..... Last Friday night as i was walking home from Mr Black , I avoided what could have been a rathar bad , bashing or mugging or both. Its hard to say which it was considering its afterwards that you find out. However, I was lucky enough to still have my radar on. Its really been years since ive used it and im glad to know i still have it. ha! But seriously , I was folowed by two guys and as soon as i got to the long strip on Lafayette (near the Public Theater) they made their move. I got away but it made me think that they may have followed me from Mr Black , so be ona extra alert this summer if your walking home from any gay bars.

What happened?
Did they grab you?
Try to rob you?
What did they look like?

It was two black guys with oversized shirts and hoods on. I actually felt like i was being followed before i even saw them (sounds stupid but true). but when i reached the long stretch of the street i turned and saw in my peripheral vision they were sort of walking faster then one of them went directly toward me and i sort of saw it out of the corner of my eye so i ran quickly across the street to the other side before he could grab me. I knew for sure they were after me when i got across the street and saw they turned and went quickly back the other way. It might have been a mugging since they didnt say any derogatory comments, but i really think they followed me from somewhere outside Mr Black. It all happend so fast , as these things do. I think they were surprised that i figured it out and bolted.