caught the much touted Michael Jackson "documentary" on ABC tonight. one word: blechhh!
not Michael, who came off as kind of sweet, surprisingly naive and definately off in his own world - it was the Interviewer - what a slimy, grimy piece of shit. Sad for Michael for not getting someone better (almost anyone would have been) to communicate his life to the world. This guy can have ANYONE interview him - why would he want to work with someone who pushes him inappropriately, tries to make him look crazy??? Would you let someone who obviously doesn't "get" you make a doumentary of your life? Lates face it, MJs PR choices arent always very well-thought-out - herein lies the rub, I guess. The questioning was beyond low - and even Barbara Walters is a sick lunatic - siding with the interviewer completely and going tabloid with her sad, sensational commentary (that dinosaur is ripe for a turn on the evolutionary wheel - Will she just get the fuck off the air already?) This interview was so poorly done - so biased and so startling bad - how could Michael have agreed to do this? Id love to hang with him sometime, interview him and have our day filmed - what a trip that'd be.

[This message was edited by Jade on 02-06-03 at 11:53 PM.]
Original Post
ok, seriously, why cant they leave the poor thing alone already....well he is not "poor" but still!
And i'm sure a lot of us know by this point that the media has always been blowing things way out of proportion just to have the public obsess over something and talk about nothing for days!
Why is MJ being so brought down? So what, so he had an extra 3000 of surgeries but it's his business!!! low self-esteem maybe, I dont know....
so he loves kids, whats wrong with that!
the balcony accident was a usual thing for him, for he claims he would even throw himself off of one if kids did not exist.
But lets face it, we all make mistakes!
MJ is just different from the mainstream society, that's all....i'm sure non of us would like to be talked about in a bad way just cause we are "different". He just lives in his own little world, so why wont people let him live there and leave him alone.
I didn't see the interview everyone's talking about, but honestly .... I feel sorry for him. Really deeply sorry for him. I wouldn't want to be him for all the money in the world. Obviously he is a deeply troubled person as evidenced by what he's done to his face via surgery, but I've always viewed his craziness as completely benign. I think what's happened to him is really tragic in the truest sense of the word. The reasons for it I guess would be a combination of many factors, but he is totally TRAPPED by his fame and completely "locked in" to his choices about plastic surgery ... at this point there is no turning back, he is stuck with that messed up face FOREVER. He will never be free of it. Very sad.
Jade agreed it was a tabloid interview... but he and his life is sensationalist fodder in any way you look at it. Bottom line is YES he is very sad and yes hes had an f'ed up life and yes the show was tabloid-tabloid. But there are other elements which don't factor in his life - he is a very shrewd business man with a clever 'boy-child' facade. Many people have spoken about his manipulation... sure there are readers of the boards who know Sandy Gallin (one of the Bleckner, geffin possee) who i understand was ripped off by MJs business... Paul McCartney and Howard Stern (who did biz mtgs with him) have both gone public on record saying he is a calculted business man who is money and fame hungry. ... I think there is much more to this sad-child...when i worked for the BBC i had a meet n greet with him once and he had SO many yes men around him THAT was SAD...he did however seem very much in control.... but so many stars are like that.
I just feel sorry for him and don't care about him really 'cept that he is amazingly talented and a sad bastard. HOWEVER, i do have a real problem with the way he is bringing the kids into that strange world ....the veil thing and that they are more like pets to feed his empty life than real children to nurture... that said.. i know plenty of wacko Wall Street folks who have kids for that same reason (they just don't use veils but torture the kids in other ways!)... but i have a kid and it does sadden me the way the kids are restricted and are distorted. The veil on the baby really bothered me and it is dangerous... And bottom line is... if a 44yr old man in your area was befrending kids there would eb a total enquiry.... he would go to trial when allegations were brought up and would not be able to pay for silence...
Well Anna as usual your perspective shines a new and sordid light on the whole matter!

There is something to the shrewd fame-hungry businessman angle. I read today on the Drudge Report that sales of his past albums (Off the Wall, Thriller and HIStory) have skyrocketed in the past week, proving the old adage that there is no such thing as bad publicity.

You are right also about his thing with the children. The bit about him yanking the newborn out of the hospital with afterbirth still on it is bizarre, to say the least. And though I'm not convinced he is actually molesting those children he hangs out with, it is certainly true that any ordinary man would be the subject of intense police scrutiny if goings-on were afoot. I certainly wouldn't want my kid doing it. If you ask me I think the parents of those kids are a bit irresponsible and probably conniving stage mothers/fathers, hoping to get something out of MJ.
Liz, was off her cake as usual in her own lil superstar bubble... she-as usual- was sick and was showing a cast on her foot... she was also giggly giddy schoolgirl at time... To be honest I was flicking between that and some other shite on the telly so didn't really take much notice.. they did show a fab Herb Ritts tv ad that was made just before his death for her fragrance...
Her hair was awful really yellow over bleached blonde ... wish she did that dark hair again.. she was so beautiful..and (don't know if you have ever met her?) but her eyes ARE AMAZING!
Plus, anyone who shagged Richard Burton and hung out in Welsh pubs is alright by me...

Again.. as for Michael... i too would not let him with my tyke alone... would prefer Messy Bonny as the nanny over Messy Michael
Only the poor girl doesn't know it yet. And those little jam-outs of his don't look the same with a gut under a silk shirt (a la Bea Arthur fashion predictability). And I'm gonna say it: I want to touch his nose. It's a fine Picasso, with his crooked myriad of triangles. Isosceles, equilateral, a pyramid, all contributing to the success of pecking in his tree.
The one that I'm worried about is that little Mexican boy. That little monologue was brilliantly rehearsed, and I hope he's getting his money's worth. How many 11-14 yr. old boys do you know hold their guy-friends' hands? Only budding tranny-chasers.

[This message was edited by B. Domination on 02-07-03 at 02:11 PM.]
Let's face it, MJ is being persecuted by the press the same way that the Marquis deSade and Oscar Wilde were.

Hey, MJ can't be all bad. He gives the kids milk and cookies before spending the night with them.. and he doesn't ask them to go to bed with him... as he so proudly states, the kids ask him!
I think Michael is an extremely talented artist. When I first was a DJ at The Mudd Club (1980) I featured Michael Jackson. Believe it or not it was a scandal at the time. The Mudd Club was the trendy "Punk" club and Michael Jackson definately did NOT fit the mold. Playing Disco music (read: black music) at the time was not cool at "Punk" venues like CBGB's, Max's Kansas City, or The Mudd. It was both too "Ghetto" and too "Studio 54". But I LOVED Michael's music and stuck by my guns and played him fiercly. I always saw him as more than just a pop star, I saw him as an "artist" (as in Museum of Modern Art). Even then I thought he was special and tuned into some artistic wavelength that we couldn't see yet. I went to bat for him countless times in all-night "art" discussions that people actually had back then. I even had a bottle thrown at me once for playing his music. I was sort of "the Michael Jackson guy". Of course I was right and a few years later Michael became the staple of EVERY East Village DJ.
(I told you so!)
I still think he is out there as an artist paving the way. He is doing the same thing Amanda Lepore is. The body modification thing. He just gets slack for it because he is still so entrenched in the "Walt Disney American Kiddie World" that Amanda has nothing to do with. I also think he is Totally insane and will end up a tragic figure. I don't see any way around that. After reading every book on Michael (including Latoya's brilliant autobiography) I now see that Michael never had a chance. His parents are THE SICKEST PEOPLE IN THE WORLD!! Especially the father. When Michael was a little kid, for example, and on the road he used to try and sleep with his head in a pillow while his brothers and father fucked women in the same bed as him. And the mother, a Jehova Whitness, would tell him how they were all going to hell etc. The poor kid never had a chance. I really feel sorry for his kids. They also don't have a chance in the world.
Please, let us not rush to blame abuse as the precursor to all strange behavior. This is not to say abuse does not happen, or does not have an impact on each it touches. However, there are millions who have been abused who have gone on and will go on to lead productive, "normal", harmless lives (even without therapy). We think of the horror of child abuse in western counties, but do not forget the everyday practices in other places. There are women out there that were "circumcised" and brought up in rituals of male superiority that lead very modern "normal" lives. I have very personal experiences, and have MANY friends who have had terrible experiences (some much worse than MJ) who have grown the fuck up and owned their lives. How about all the middle-class tenement, prairie, hut-living people of the early Americas, present natives, etc, who don't have enough room to not do IT in the same room? How about Mike's a very talented freak/dork who didn't have the advantage of an honest friend to tell him he doesn't have to act like that to get people to like him? Give me break people, because MJ's nothing but a spoiled child who grew up with role models that sucked and always had too much money for anyone to teach him the rudiments of being a grown-up. And I still think he could be a tranny.
The reasons for why MJ is the way he is are of course complicated and I'm sure the parental abuse part is only one aspect. Interesting to note the rest of the Jackson siblings, in particular Janet, seem to handle their adult lives in more normal-adjusted ways (though nobody is perfect and everyone has their problems). I just imagine him having to look at that massacred face every morning in the mirror for the rest of his life and knowing he will have to live with the consequences of his earlier decisions until his dying day. Heartbreaking!

I understand the argument that his plastic surgeries are a form of visual art like Amanda's, but in MJ one always has the sense that, where Amanda is creating something, MJ is running away from something. While Amanda seems to have a destination in mind when she gets something done, one never knows what strange driveway we'll turn onto when MJ gets more surgery. And in any case he just doesn't have her sense of style, pinache etc.
in his interview (read: gross prodding) he claimed he's never had surgury on his "face" except for the two on his nose (2!). woo hoo, believe that and the moon is lit from inside! he claimed it was a normal part of maturing. I guess maybe, since he and latoya look a lot alike. can you really grow a cleft chin?

That's also the difference between him and someone like Amanda - she celebrates her transformation - and I didnt know this before, but - he pretends it didnt happen! Did I mention he also claims he only altered his nose so he could "breathe better"?

I have an amazing book called "michael jackson was my lover" - we were selling them at A Different Light for a couple months before they went out of print. its by some guy who befriended the kids family who was involved in that lawsuit.

[This message was edited by Jade on 02-07-03 at 09:55 PM.]
First off, well said Lex, he is running away from something where Amanda is creating. But once again, so what? He's had some plastic surgery..so has Cher, George Hamilton, Joan Rivers.........................

Now for the "bad" news kids...like it or not, that interview last night was incredibly fair. In fact I don't think it was this guys intention to "get" Michael at all. I think he started out intrigued, just like the rest of us.

The only place in the interview were I think he over reacted was at the Zoo when the press was hounding them. That's the life of a kid who's parent is a superstar. He went on and on about how Michael could have done something about it and I think that was a bit overstated.

That being said, as for the rest of the interview I think he was pretty good to MJ. Let's start with this example: Last November when Michael hung his child out the window, does anyone remember "any" news organization telling us that the crowd below was chanting for the child? I certainly don't. This guy last night did. I'm not saying Michael should be hanging his kids over a balcony, but at least via this report last night, I finally had a reason for why he did it.

As for the groups of kids Michael busses in for day trips, the reporter said many times that he never saw anything inappropriate. In fact he said Michael was "Charming" and "Sweet" and the images they showed Micheal was just that.

I love hearing about bizzare creative people. I love the people who can buck the trend and make thier millions and give us all something to hope for and dream about. I think being able to climb into a tree at age 44, not that id want to do it, is being young at heart, eccentric and fun. This guy not only showed us that, he tried to climb into the tree himself.

I feel sorry for Michael not because he was hoodwinked and not because he had a rough childhood, but because he is sad. In spite of all his "haves" he is a have not. There is a huge hole there that we can't even begin to imagine.

That doesn't excuse the obvious. Children are sleeping in his bed?!! This just freaks me out. If I had been interviewing him and saw him holding that childs hand, I would have unleashed. (What this kids parents are thinking is beyond me and of course another story)

Now, let's assume for a second that nothing sexual has happened. Ok, you still settled a lawsuit accusing you of child molestation about 10 years ago and your still sleeping with and admitting on international tv that your sleeping with children? Come on guys!! This behavior is indefensible!

If you were wrongly accused of molesting a child would you put yourself in this position? I don't know who said it, but yes, if I suspected a neighbor or for that matter a friend, of sleeping with children, I'd do something about it.

We don't want to believe that our heros could be capable of such behavior. Especially someone who has achieved a status of American royalty.

There in lies the greatest "danger". "We don't want to believe"... what is "painfully" obvious.
I didnt think the questions were unfair - just done with blatant disregard for any jounalistic "distance" - the interviewer obviously could not help himself - notice how emotionally upset he was all the time - all that whining, all that passing judgement?? AS IF his interpretation of events was DEFACTO the same for us. Not true. Barbra Wawa joined in treating his conclusions of Jackson's behavior as fact - they arent. A good reporter lets or at least gives the appearance that the audience has the will to make up its own mind when given the facts. this was pure tabloid TV. Jacksons problems are troubling, but I felt the journalism was the sadder event.
Jade,

Fair enough. If those are the paramaters, then maybe he did cross the line a little bit. Since it did air on a "news program" I suppose it should have tried to hold itself, or ABC, should have held itself to a higher level.

Like I mentioned there was definitly his reaction to the zoo that turned me off. I guess were so inundated with tabloid news that sometimes it's hard to know what we are watching. That being said it doesn't bother me when Ted Koppell or Chris Matthews show thier skeptisism or disbelief with a subject or response to a question.

As far as Barbara Walters is concerned....my God...that woman became a parody of herself soooooo many years ago, I have trouble watching anything she's a part of.
If MJ were born white his nose wouldn't have been so big and flat and then he wouldn't have been driven to have so many botched up nose operations.

At least this is what a big black lady by the name of Flo Anthony tried to insinuate on the Rita Cosby Fox News show last night!!!

I felt very bad for the other 2 guests on the show, Michael Musto of the Village Voice and Ted Casablancas of E. Flo Anthony would not let either one of them get a word in edgewise. She was acting very loud and very rude toward them!

Yikes, playing the race card over MJ's fucked up nose!!! I think this whole Michael Jackson thing is getting totally out of hand!!!!

[This message was edited by Joel on 02-09-03 at 04:59 PM.]
I just revisited that old book I found "michael jackson was my lover" ewwww. I think I must have only looked at the photos before - it has everything you NEVER wanted to know about MJ: police interviews with former staff, the diary of the kid that accused him, personal details you dont want to know about anyone. Jackos world is not a pretty place. its in my give-away pile

ps - dont think Id like to "hang" with him at this point
Daddy, thanks for the historical references on Michael Jackson and your impressions of his work as an artist. Have always found MJ's music fun to dance to. Watched the show with Bobby while in Ptown and was prepared to hate him. He somehow won us over. Michael came across as very loving and supportive tho not terribly misunderstood.

SaturdayNightLive got it right when they gave time to the 'father' last week, who's character announced that Michael is not hard enough on his kids like he was, cause the father's kids all had jobs by the time there were five. Applying standards of child abuse and welfare are always hard, cause we would have to ask them to edit out the bedroom scene in 'The Sound of Music' where the nanny, fresh from a nunnery, invites all the children to sleep in her bed while she ends up sleeping with the father by the end of the movie and in real life.
You know that's her next step! She's done everything she can possibly do that face, it's high time to start on the body. She should just get a pussy already and be done with it. Only in this country can someone go from being a black boy to a white woman.

Maybe MJ should set up a special Plastic Surgery Foundation for trannys and other qualifying individuals.

I remember once when I was in the 6th grade this rumor started going around school that MJ had undergone a sex change operation and was now going to be known as "Michelle" Jackson. Gullible me really believed it was true, and when I told my mother she laughed hysterically for days.
I used to worship Thriller - listened to it every night before going to bed. Its weird for fans of his music and what he was/seemed to be - who supported him so much in his early career to understand whats going on over there in Neverland. I had an interesting conversation with the mother of one of my students the other day - She was also a huge Jackson fan. She thinks he's probably harmless, but that this interview was a cry for some good therapy. (She also felt the interviewer turned on him towards the end of the documentary) She said even if he does "sleep" with children - why would you say so on TV? I think he crys out to be understood, but then tells all these tall tales to conceal certain parts of his world. You cant realy have it both ways. We both agreed (it was kind of surreal 'going there' with one of my clients) that Michael really thinks he is a child and chooses to live in that mentality. Couple that with all his wealth and ability to insulate himself from reality - sounds like a recipe for, well, - "jacko".

I too felt sympathetic to him after the interview. But I still feel he's hiding a great deal that is definately not wholesome or healthy. And all that pretending about his face - he seems to think that if you tell a lie enough times it will make it true.

I find him fascinating because he is a brilliant artist - but somehow so corrupt and so wrong in so many ways. I think being such a commercial star, coupled with his unique, fucked-up upbringing. I dont know - its interesting to talk to other people about him - because he's brought a lot of issues to the mainstream that are worthy of discussion - and its so rich!
also, I enjoyed the few moments where he talked about where his music comes from - how he intended a song with a strong bassline and then 'god' gave him Billy Jean - in one moment. love that - I was hoping for more of this kind of talk- but as with most 'celebrities' - you get too much of the drama and not enough of the incite into their artistic world.
Lost in all this mess is any kind of real defense of Jackson concerning the molestation. But a 1994 article in GQ Magazine by respected journalist Mary A.Fischer may wind up being Jackson's "smoking gun." In a good way. Called "Was Michael Jackson Framed?" the heavily researched article revealed that the parents and stepfather of 13-year-old Jordan Chandler were at odds with each other and in financial disarray when they seized on the idea of destroying Jackson.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,78696,00.html
I've never totally bought the notion that Jackson is really having sex with those kids. Being insane and enormously rich, he'd be an easy target for the wrong kind of people to exploit. Frankly I think the parents are equally suspect and certainly share in the responsibility. Certainly there are parents out there, especially in Hollywood, who would prostitute their kids in exchange for money, movie or record deals, etc. And MJ's interaction with the kids may be totally innocent and sexless just like he claims, we really don't know. If there is sexual contact, I'm sure it's non-violent and a result of MJ being so out of it that he truly BELIEVES he's a big kid in the science fiction of his own mind, and so to him it's just one kid "experimenting" with another.

Whether he's actually had sex with the kids or not however, the fact that he would go on camera admitting to sleeping with kids after what happened in the court case years ago proves he's completely delusional and clueless. And the emphatic denials about his plastic surgery against such obvious physical evidence proves that he is a liar and probably believes his own lies. So we really have to take everything he says with a grain of salt. Very sad.

[This message was edited by Luxury Lex on 02-17-03 at 11:07 PM.]
I do not mean to beat a dead horse, but I did a little checking and this guy who purports to be Michael's friend - Uri Geller - is a real bottom feeder. For the last 5 years he's been a Michael Jackson parasite.

What a fraud this dude is. He claims he can bend spoons with his mind. How stupid! Doesn't he know that it's a lot easier and quicker to bend a spoon with your hands?????
LOL

Check out this site: Michael Jackson & Uri Geller together
...my issue goes back few years to the child abuse aligations. If as a parent you thought your child had been abused, would any amount of cash mean more that seeing the abuser tried and convicted? I guess my point is, it seems strange that the kids parents accepted money for silence...if someone HAD abused a child of mine no amount of $$$ would be enough!!
Yikes, I am never going to say another unkind thing about Michael Jackson again. In the just published April edition of Vanity Fair it is reported that MJ paid a voodoo witch-doctor of some sort to cast spells on people!!!! Michael paid $150,000 to put a death curse on Stephen Spielberg (and another one on David Geffin)!!

I personally think Michael also put a curse on these Motherboards!!!! Hey, Chi Chi and Daddy be careful in NOLA! I myself am not going to fuck around with MJ anymo'. Yikes, MJ's faux nose and faux page-boy wig means he really does mean business! I can't prove it, but I think MJ paid to have a voodoo curse put on me too!!! The mean vicious little bastard!
Michael Jackson puts VooDoo curse on Spielberg
All evidence would suggest the voodoo curse backfired. Spielberg and Geffen continue to thrive personally and professionally; Jackson's face, family and reputation are in ruins. Be careful what you wish for.

David Geffen is probably lounging poolside with a harem of boys at his mansion right now as I type, reading the Vanity Fair article and laughing away the afternoon.
quote:
I personally think Michael also put a curse on these Motherboards!!!! ... Yikes, MJ's faux nose and faux page-boy wig means he really does mean business! I can't prove it, but I think MJ paid to have a voodoo curse put on me too!!!


you're right, joel...
nothing says "i mean business" like a fierce, butch page boy do.
and i would be careful if i were you.
or else you might be dangled by your feet over a hotel balcony.
or worse!!

just wondering... what have you done to piss off la thriller so???
Confused
In the last 2 years I almost died from a deep throbosis blood clot in my deep veins and also I have been afflicted with pneumonia and lung embulisms which have developed into some stupid form of COPD!!

As soon as I read the Vanity Fair article today about Michael Jackson, my illnesses suddenly all make sense. The little bugger has cast da spell on me - yikes!

Ya see, I have a lot of sites on the internet and some of them tell it like it is about Michael:

Michael and Latoya

Michael's noxious enemas

Lisa Marie Presley and Michael Jackson

Joel tells Michael Jackson jokes

Yikes, I'm calling my attorney tomorrow. I am thinking of suing Michael Jackson if it turns out that he has paid money to have a curse put on me.
La Toya was on Larry King last night.... OHMAHGAWRD! She was a total Stepford wife ... constantly in this hysterical smile telling the world that she is SO Happy and LIfe is wonderful and that Michael is WOnderful and her father is a wonderful man... etc etc.... obviously girlfriend needs that family ca$h.... It was very scary as she was really on the verge of insanity but with this big plastic Everythings GREAT (gritted teeth smile)... VERY frightening and hysterical to watch....
She was in total denial about ever selling stories to the tabloids too which was funny... almost talked in the 3rd person... a shrink would have had a field day with her.... pity it was Larry King that interviewed her and not a real journalist.
C'mon, guys! LaToya and MJ ARE the same person. It's called fully-transformative split-personality disorder. Instead of just being two or more people in the head, the body actually takes on the form of the identities. This phenomena occurs during ritual satanic abuse, where the victim taps into the power of their most primitive cortex, reshaping their bodies in primordial-ooze instinct, thus allowing them to camouflage their bodies and escape their attackers. We all know MJ was from a broken home, and he even admitted himself (in that tell-all interview) he used his imagination to escape - but even he knew not how far! LaToya is rarely seen with her family, and they are always reluctant to speak much about her, very much like an embarassed mother is loathe to discuss her child's only friend - an imaginary bird.
We must not badger MJ, we must not ridicule him. We must help ween him from his childhood escape-route. Can we find a way for him to comfortably merge his innerselves? We must rally around the poor child crying out for what he most desperately needs, and we must find a way to convince him it is for the sake of all that is beautiful, all that is pure, and all that is innocent on this forsaken plane! Give him a sex-change!

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